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Perl 6 Summary for 2004-10-01 through 2004-10-17

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Matt Fowles
October 17, 2004 16:04
Perl 6 Summary for 2004-10-01 through 2004-10-17
Message ID:

Welcome to my first summary.  Since I am relatively new at this game,
I will just steal Piers's approach and start with Perl6 internals. 
But before that let me warn you that my ability to make strange
characters with accents is not great, thus please do not be offended
if I don't include them in your name.  If you want them to appear in
the future, a quick email about how to make them appear using a US
qwerty keyboard and Mozilla should suffice.

Also, does not seem to have picked up perl6.compiler
yet, so iw ould be s

With that legal disclaimer out of the way onward to 

== Perl6-Internals

= Configure problems and Improvements

Leo noticed that Configure doesn't rebuild things correctly.  Takers
welcome.  Nicholas Clark added a --prefix option for the make install

= Non-core module dependency

Joshua Gatcomb  accidentally introduced a dependency on
Config::IniFiles.  Since it is implemented in pure perl he offered to
add it to the repository.  Warnock applies.

= OpenBSD troubles

Jens Rieks found and fixeda coredump on OpenBSD.  Thanks, Jens.

= Threads on Cygwin

Joshua Gatcomb discovered some trouble with threads on Cygwin.  It
seems that there are problems with both the thread implementation, and
the tests not be generous enough if accepting out of order input. 
Still unresolved, I think.

= Parrot IO is not quite threadsafe

Nicholas Clark discovered a double free in the IO system.  While his
problem was solved by Jens, the underlying problem still remains.

= make install portability issues

Nicholas Clark asked why the install taget was not portable.  Steve
Fink responded that it was a quick hack at the time and made it

= Namespaces

The namespace thread continues to churn.  It is slowly making
progress, but I beleive there is a fair amount of people talking past
eachother going on.  Perhaps Dan could step in and provide one final
state of the namespaces?

= Parrot Abstract Syntax Tree aka PAST

Sam Ruby decided to pick up the Python on Parrot ball.  To that end he
enquired as to what PAST is.  Leo provided answers and help.  Will
asked for more help.  Leo once again provided.

= JIT for non-branching compare opcodes.

Stephane Peiry provided a patch to JIT some more opcodes.  Leo
applied.  Stephane then provided a patch with tests.  Jens applied
that one.

= Comparing Pythons

Sam Ruby posted a link comparing various pythons and there conformance
to a test suite.
Sam Ruby: Comparing Pythons

= Metaclasses?

Dan admitted confusion as to what exactly metaclasses are/do.  Papers
and explanations were provided by Aaron Sherman, Michael Walter, and
Sam Ruby.

= Plain Old Hash

William Coleda wondered if Parrot had a basic hash implementation (not
a PerlHas).  Dan said "D'oh!" and asked for takers.  Will Coleda added

= Parakeet 0.3

Michael Pelletier's language Parakeet has hit 0.3 and been added to
CVS.  Everybody should play with it.

= make install thoughts

Leo conjectured about creating a parrot_config.c which would encode
all of parrot's configuration.  Then parrot would know its own config.
 Jens suggested letting miniparrot generate it; Leo agreed.

= more piethon

Dan's register spilling problems give him free time.  He used it to
work on piethon a little.

= Priviledge implementation

Felix Gallo posted some questions/thoughts with respect to
priveledges.  While Leo addressed Felix's question about the location
of source files (and provided a nice plug for vim).  The others all
remain Warnocked.

= make in languages/TCL

Matthew Zimmerman  supplied a patch to fix TCL's make.  William Coleda
modified and applied it.

= MANIFEST fixup.

Andy Dougherty provided a patch to remove some old files from the
manifest.  Steve Fink applied it.

= Parrot 0.1.1 "Poicephalus"

There was a little talk about names.  Then a little talk about getting
it posted to  In the end the 0.1.1 release did happen and
even made it to /.  Thank you to everyone who contributed.

= Data::Dumper TODO

Will Coleda added a TODO for Data::Dumper.  Apparently it cannot dump
FixedPMCArrays.  Will conjectures that there are probably other new
PMCs it cannot handle either.  Patches welcome.

= Emacs, XEmacs, and pir-mode

Jerome Quelin kicked off a thread that resulted in emacs getting
better pir-mode support.  Thanks to all involved, but I will continue
to use vim ;-)

= A %= B

Dan noticed that we did not have support for "%=" in PIR.  There was
some confusion as several people rushed to the rescue.  In the end,
the problem was fixed.  Thanks all.

= Pushing and Popping Arrays

Will Coleda wondered why he could not push onto a FixedArray.  The
answer was quickly provided that Fixed means that its size cannot be
modified, not that it is bounded.  This answer seemed reasonable
enough to him.  He then went on to ask why he could not pop a
ResizableArray.  The answer is of course, because it is not
implemented yet, patches welcome.

= imcc reserved words

Sam Ruby wondered how to create a sub name "num" in imcc.  The answer,
no, and a workaround was provided by Jens.

= Quiet vs Loud build system.

Andy Dougherty provided a patch to improve the build system.  Steve
Fink applied it.  Leo disliked it.  Consensus seems to be not to use

= Cygwin bugs

Joshua Gatacomb has been fighting with Cygwin getting Parrot to work. 
Apparently we trip a few of its bugs.  Read more if you like.

= Python concerns

Jeff Clites raised some concerns about dealing with Python's bound and
unbound methods.  There was some discussion about it.  In the end, it
just means a little more work.

= Makefile cleanup

Will submitted a patch cleaning up the makefile.  There was some back
and forth about what parts of the patch should be kept.

= Win32 issues

Ron Blaschke provided a few patches for Win32 which Jens and Leo applied.

= dynamically loadable modules

Steve Fink spent some time chugging away at dynclass and dynamically
loaded modules.  There was some discussion of proper variable names
and some working out of problems.  Friendly reminder, when in doubt
"make clean; perl; make"

= ICU without --prefix problems

Steve Fink was apparently having troubles with ICU and locating
necessary data files.  Leo confirmed that it is a problem.


Jens has apparently had success working with MinGW.  Yay!

= ICU issues

Will had some ICU issues.  Various suggestions and solutions were
attempted.  Any success?

= locals inside macros

Will wants .locals inside .macros.  Apparently it can only be done if
your macro only takes PMCs.

= t/pmc/signal.t improvements

Jeff Clites provided a patch with improvements to t/pmc/signal.t. 
Warnock applies.

= coroutines and --python (whose last name I cannot find) wondered about
the --python flag.  The answers and discussion that followed indicate
that it was a quick and dirty hack.  Eventually it will be gone and
Python will have PMCs of its own (relatively quickly if Sam Ruby has
anything to say about it).

= small patches

Sam Ruby fixed a small problem in PerlInt.  Jeff Clites fixed a bug
and cleaned some warnings in darwin/dl.c.  He also fixed some tests
and added a Parrot_memalign function for OSX.  Stephane Payrand
provided a patch to allow multiple identifiers on one line in pir. 
Stephane also added a get_representation op.  Bernhard Schmalhofer
added support for syncrhonous callbacks.  Ion Alexandru Morega added
more functionality to complex PMC.  Leo applied the patches.

= Link failure on amd64

Adam Thomason pointed out that amd64 lost a vital link flag somewhere
in the shuffle.

= non-vtable methods on buildin pmcs

Sam Ruby wondered about allowing pmcs to implement additional
non-vtable methods.  Leo thought it would be good.  Sam provided a
patch, chromatic tweaked it, and Leo applied it.

= tinderbox?

Jens wondered what happened to  Apparently it died
a while back and has not yet been resurected.  Robert Spier also noted
that it was a little difficult to deal with and was interested in
creating a new one.  He is also looking for help in this endevor.

= register stacks [again]

Leo has once again pushed forward his idea for register stacks and
been Warnocked.

= ncurses troubles

Andy Dougherty had some ncurses trouble.  In particular, one of the
error messages was exceptionally unhelpful.  Now it is a little more

= coding standards

Leo would like to draw everyones attention to
docs/pdds/pdd07_codingstd.pod, and the fact that it should be applied
to perl code where appropriate.  Thank you.

= rx_compile and FSAs

Aaron Sherman has some ambitious stuff in the works with respect to
regular expressions.  Stay tuned for details.

= Single character from stdin

Matt Diephouse wants to know how to get a single character from STDIN.
 The answer seems to be no, but this has triggered Dan to go back to
the IO/Event doc.  Best of luck Dan.

= samples

Paul Seamons noticed that some of the samples on are
really out of date.  Will Coleda agreed and suggested that they should
all be updated to pir too.  Takers welcome.

= New comers

Pratik Roy wondered if he could join into the work on Parrot or if he
would remain an outsider looking in.  Many people rushed to suggest
ways in which he could help.  So, please don't feel afraid to
contribute.  At worst a patch of yours will be turned away with an
explanation as to why.  At best, you will start being referred to by
first name only in the summaries.

= Python and Perl interop

Sam Ruby wondered about how Python and Perl woud interoperate.  Leo,
Steve Fink, and Thomas Sandlass has ideas and suggestions.  I think
the answer will be magically.

= Inline::Parrot

Ovid pointed the world at Inline::Parrot.  It looks cool.

= Problems with 0.1.1 on x86-64

Brian Wheeler had a problem with Parrot on x86-64.  He provided a
patch, but Leo couldn't apply it and asked for a resend.  Silence

= Bug in factorial?

James Ghofulpo wondered if the Parrot examples page's factorial
program was supposed to truncate output.  Warnock applies.

= autodetection

Sridhar discovered that would fail if he told it to
"--cxx=/usr/bin/g++-3.3";  Jens pointed out that he would also need to
tell it "--link=g++-3.3".

= Parrot Forth 0.1

Matt Diephouse release Parrot Forth 0.1.  It has many cool features. 
Nice work.  Perhaps this should go into languages/?

= .return directives

Stephane Payrard wants to remove the multiple meaning of .return to
provide a cleaner path forward.  Everyone agrees.

= YAGCB (Yet Another Garbage Collection Bug)

Will thought he had turned up another GC bug with TCL.  This time he
hadn't and it was his fault.  Can win them all I guess.

= testing a PMC for truth

Will wondered how to determine a pmc's boolean value.  Leo pointed him
toward istrue.

= grsecurity problems

Christian Jaeger noticed taht grsecurity was stopping on Parrot's
attempts to execute jitted code.  Leo pointed out that we already have
support for doing the right thing, we are just failing to detect that
we need to.

= PMCs and inheritance

Sam Ruby wanted inheritance for PMCs.  Apparently what we really need
is a scheme for multiple inheritance of pmcs.  Sam Ruby supplied
several patches, parts of them got applied by Leo.

= C++ and typedef struct Parrot_Interp *Parrot_Interp don't play well

Jeff Clites discovered that, on OSX, we get troubles because C++ does
not like typedef struct Parrot_Interp *Parrot_Interp.  We need C++ to
link ICU.  Fortunately, that particular typedef is out of the ordinary
and violates our normal conventions.  So Brent 'Dax' Royal-Gordon
threatened to apply the (fairly large) fix.  Will tested Brents patch
and gave it the thumbs up.

= JIT, exec core, threads, and architecture proposal

Leo proposed mandating that all JIT must be done interpreter-relative.
 This allowed some happy optimizations including constant table
access.  General resonse was favorable.

= --tree option

Bernhard Schmalhofer submitted a patch fixing the aformentionedc
--tree option.  No answer yet, but it has not really been long enough
to officially invoke Warnock.

= unununium

Jacques Mony asked for help/advice porting Parrot to unununium.  No
responses yet...

== Perl6 Compiler

google groups still doesn't have Perl6 Compiler, so this section won't
have links.  Sorry.

= Compilation Paradigms

Jeff Clites put out a request for some basic P6 examples and resultant
bytecode so that everyone would be on the same page.  Warnock applies.

= Interals, rules, REPL

Herbert Snorrason had some basic questions about Perl6's interaction
with Parrot.  He also wanted to know about whether he should be
playing the re_tests or if that was wasted effort.  Finally he wanted
to know about read-eval-print loops.  Sadly Warnock applies across the

== Perl 6 Language

Google groups has nothing for Perl6.language between October 2 and 14.
 Is this really the case?  (I had not signed up until shortly before
volunteering to summarize.)  If there is email that I just can't find,
I would be appreciative if someone could produce a summary or a
pointer to the missing mail for me.  Thanks.

= updating multiple rows

Nitin Thakur attempted to de-Warnock himself.  Apparently
unsuccessfully.  Sorry, Nitin.

== Perl 6 Summaries

Piers raised the white flag after several years as a wonderful
summarizer.  Having now just finished my first summary, let me say
thank you for all of your hard work and if you ever want the job back
its yours ;-)  I hope you don't mind my stealing your general format
for these things.

== The usual footer
   If you find these summaries useful or enjoyable, please consider
   contributing to the Perl Foundation to help support the development of
   Perl. You might also like to send feedback to -- The Perl Foundation -- Perl 6 Development site -- Parrot Blog aggregator

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