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This week's summary

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From:
The Perl 6 Summarizer
Date:
January 27, 2004 08:32
Subject:
This week's summary
Message ID:
m2wu7dpw4l.fsf@obelisk.bofh.org.uk
The Perl 6 Summary for the week ending 20040125
    Welcome to the first summary from my new home in Gateshead. The same old
    wibble, with a different view from its window and fewer trips to London.
    Right, time to see what's been going on in perl6-internals this week.

  Global labels in IMCC
    The cryptically named TOGoS wondered how to get the address of a label
    in a different IMCC compilation unit. According to Dan there's no way to
    do that, and you didn't want to do that anyway.

    http://tinyurl.com/3evz2

  Dan's threads proposal
    After a few weeks of everyone else's proposals, Dan started to outline
    the design of Parrot's threading capabilities. He started by defining
    his terms (a useful thing to do in a field where there seem to me
    multiple competing definitions of various terms) and guaranteeing that
    user code wouldn't crash the interpreter (subject to the assumption that
    system level memory allocation was thread safe) before getting into the
    meat of his proposal. Which you're probably best reading for yourself;
    it's a long document but there's very little flab and any attempt of
    mine to summarize it would probably end up being at least as long as and
    a good deal less lucid than the original.

    Of course, this sparked a ton of discussion, generally positive, as
    people asked for various clarifications and made suggestions. Gordon
    Henriksen pointed out a nasty race condition that means that the garbage
    collector can't be made as thread safe as Dan had hoped.

    Summarizer Barbie says "Threads are hard!"

    On Thursday, Dan posted a last call for comments and objections before
    he went on to the detailed design. This time there were some objections,
    but I don't think any of 'em are going to stop Dan.

    http://tinyurl.com/ys2ar

    http://tinyurl.com/29lpb

  Vtables organization
    Last week Dan had outlined an approach to organizing PMC vtables using a
    chaining approach; this week saw the discussion of that proposal with
    Benjamin K. Stuhl asking the hard questions.

    http://tinyurl.com/35rlc

  Benchmark suite
    Matt Fowles suggested that it might make sense to create a canonical
    suite of benchmarks to exercise Parrot well. His idea being that, if we
    have a standard suite of Parrot benchmarks, then potential performance
    affecting changes could be tested against that, rather than having
    custom benchmarks rolled each time. Luke Palmer pointed to
    examples/benchmarks and noted that it's hard to create benchmarks that
    test everything. However, he hoped that any good benchmark that gets
    posted to the list would get added to this suite, along with some
    documentation describing what is being tested.

    http://tinyurl.com/22cyj

  Number formatting
    Dan did some more designing, this time mandating that Parrot will,
    eventually adopt ICU's formatting template for numeric templates but, to
    start with, we'll be rolling our own. The new op will be "format Sx,
    [INP]y, [SP]z".

    http://tinyurl.com/2vhuk

  Base string transforms
    Dan announced that he would be adding "upcase", "downcase", "titlecase"
    and "to_chartype" to the various chartype vtables. He also noted that
    he'd like to get some alternative chartypes and encodings into Parrot as
    soon as possible to make sure we can actually handle things without
    having to use Unicode all the time.

    http://tinyurl.com/2gvg3

  Calling conventions in IMCC
    Will Coleda had some problems with IMCC's handling of the parrot calling
    conventions when he found that code that worked a couple of months ago
    had stopped working in the current Parrot (A month is a *very* long time
    in Parrot development though.) The problem took a fair bit of tracking
    down and I'm not entirely sure it's entirely fixed yet; Will had reached
    the point where the code would compile, but it still wouldn't actually
    run.

    http://tinyurl.com/3d4c4

  Steve Fink's obnoxious test case
    Steve Fink posted an obnoxious test case that generated memory
    corruption. The test case is obnoxious because it's 56KB of IMCC source
    code, and Steve had been unable to reduce it. This didn't discourage Leo
    Tötsch though, who set about tracking the bug to its lair. It's not
    fixed yet, but with the Patchmonster on the case it can only be a matter
    of time.

    There were several other GC related issues that cropped up over the
    week; I wonder if they're all aspects of a single lurking bug.

    http://tinyurl.com/yvnmn

  IMCC returning ints
    Steve Fink also found a problem with IMCC failing to properly return
    integers from unprototyped routines and posted an appropriate patch to
    the test suite. It turns out that the problem is that IMCC doesn't quite
    implement the full Parrot Calling Conventions, especially the return
    convention, but it's getting there.

    http://tinyurl.com/2rtzo

  The costs of sharing
    Leo Töposted a test program and some results for timing the difference
    between using shared and unshared PMCs. The shared versions are (not
    surprisingly) slower than the unshared ones; the question is whether the
    difference between the two can be improved. Hopefully the benchmark will
    get checked into examples/benchmarks as suggested by Luke earlier.

    http://tinyurl.com/2da47

  An array of array types
    Dan noted that we have "a pile of different array classes with fuzzy
    requirements and specified behaviours which sort of inherit from each
    other except when they don't." He suggested that the time had come to
    work out what we actually *want* in the way of array classes, compare
    our requirements with what we have, and then to do something about
    making what was available match what was required. I'm not sure that the
    resulting discussion has finalized the set of array types needed, but
    it's getting there. (Does anyone else think 'FixedMixedArray' is awfully
    clumsy as names go?).

    http://tinyurl.com/39gx8

  Remember to nag Robert Spier
    Robert Spier announced that repairing the web accessible TODO list was
    on his personal TODO list and asked to be nagged about it periodically.

    Robert, remember you need to fix the web accessible TODO list.

    http://tinyurl.com/3269g

  Churchill's parrot still swearing
    Effortlessly Godwinning himself, Uri Guttman pointed to a press release
    which stated that Winston Churchill's parrot, Charlie, is now 104 years
    old and can still be coaxed into squawking "Fuck Hitler" and "Fuck the
    Nazis" which had apparently made it rather unsuitable for keeping at its
    owner's pet shop due to its habit of swearing at children.

    http://tinyurl.com/2kjrw

  Updated documentation in Perl scripts
    Michael Scott continued his sterling work of updating and generally
    improving Parrot's documentation. This week his attention fell upon: the
    Perl scripts found in build_tools, classes and tools/dev. Top man that
    he is, he's currently working on the documentation embedded in C code.

    http://tinyurl.com/3gpox

    http://tinyurl.com/yr57s

  Open issue review
    Robert Spier (don't forget the web accessible todo list Robert) posted a
    list of the 177 currently outstanding Parrot issues in the RT system and
    asked for volunteers to go through them to help weed out those issues
    that were no longer current. So people did. Which is nice.

    http://tinyurl.com/2nb3t

  How to subclass dynamic PMCs
    Michal Wallace is trying to make a dynamically loaded PMC that
    subclasses another dynamically loaded PMC and he can't work out how to
    do it. Leo Tötsch had the answer.

    http://tinyurl.com/2yevk

  How does Parrot handle High Level Language eval
    Nigel Sandever wondered how Parrot would handle "eval" opcodes for
    multiple different languages. Leo pointed him at the "compile" op, which
    (while it isn't fully implemented yet) will address this issue. Dan
    noted that it's currently working for PIR and PASM code but that it
    should be able to work eventually with any compiler that generates
    standard bytecode.

    http://tinyurl.com/2ukrl

  Signals and events
    Leo is working on turning OS level signals into Parrot level events, and
    he's not having an easy time of it. He posted a summary of the issues
    and asked for comments. Discussion continues.

    http://tinyurl.com/3c795

  Threading again
    Gordon Henriksen worries that Parrot's current architecture is actively
    thread hostile. He also accepted that trying to change it now wasn't
    really possible. So he outlined various ways in which the need for
    locking could be reduced, which should help speed things up. The big
    problem, as Gordon sees it, is that so many Parrot data structures are
    mutable, and mutable data structures require locks. And having PMCs that
    can morph from one type to another is... well, Gordon claims that
    "morph" must die, though he later modified this claim. He and Leo batted
    this back and forth for a while; I'm not sure either side is convinced.

    http://tinyurl.com/2qwfp

  Embedding vs. extending interface types
    Mattia Barbon noted that the embedding and extending interfaces were
    still using different names for "Parrot_Interp" and "Parrot_INTERP". He
    wondered which was correct. It turns out that nobody's quite sure, but
    the person who can make the decision -- Dan -- was en route to
    Copenhagen when this came up, so there's no answer yet.

    http://tinyurl.com/2cdy8

Meanwhile in perl6-language
  Semantics of Vector operations
    Determined to test everyone's Unicode readiness, Luke Palmer kicked off
    a discussion of the semantics of "[1,2,3] »+« [4,5,6]". At first
    glance it looks like the result should be "[5,7,9]", but Luke argued
    that actually, the code was trying to add two lists, each containing a
    single scalar, that just happened to be listrefs. Larry pointed out that
    "Doing what you expect at first glance is also called 'not violating the
    principle of least surprise'", before going on to surprise us all with
    'lopsided' vector ops, which would allow the programmer to specify when
    a value was expected to be treated as a scalar:

        $a   »+« $b     # Treat $a and $b as lists
        $x    +« $y     # Treat $x as a scalar and $b as a list
              -« @bar   # Return a list of every element of @bar, negated
        @foo »+  @bar   # Add the length of @bar to every element of @foo

    Then he scared me with "@foo »+= @foo". He noted that it might take
    some getting used to, but that it helped if you pronounce "»" and "«"
    as 'each'. Austin Hastings didn't like it (from a syntax highlighting
    point of view), but he appeared to be outvoted. Larry pointed out that
    "«»" etc were the least of a syntax highlighters worries given that
    any "use", "eval" or operator declaration had the potential to morph any
    subsequent syntax. Piers Cawley thought that truly accurate syntax
    highlighting would have to be done in an image based IDE implemented in
    Perl because such an editor would always know what rules were in scope
    for a given chunk of code. A. Pagaltzis thought that this would
    definitely increment the Smalltalkometer for Perl 6.

    As discussion and exploration of this idea continued it became apparent
    that people seem to like this particular weirding of the language, and
    it certainly allows the programmer to disambiguate things rather neatly.
    Luke even pointed out that this new approach allows for calling a method
    on a list of values: "@list ».method", and to call a list of methods on
    a value: "$value.« @methods".

    Then the fun began. The issue is that "»" and "«" can also be written 
   "<<" and ">>" (but your POD processor hates you for it). This leads to 
    ambiguities like ">>+<<=<<" (which are even harder to type in a Pod 
    escape) which can be parsed as "»+<<=«" or "»+«=«" (where << means 
   'left shift'). Larry wondered if the problem arose because of trying to 
    make the "<<" and ">>" alternatives look too similar to the Unicode 
    glyphs.

    You know, looking at that last paragraph I can see why people think Perl
    6 is horribly scary. The thing is, you're not expected to use
    constructions like that in real world programs all the time; but when
    you're working out what a grammar should be you *have* to think of all
    the nasty edge cases to see where things break.

    Anyway, such nastiness led to the possibility of introducing a
    'whitespace eating' macro which would allow for the introduction of
    disambiguating whitespace. The front runner for this macro is "_".

    http://tinyurl.com/38zu9

  Comma operator
    Remember a few months ago when there was some discussion of replacing
    the C style comma with some other glyph? If that were done, one of the
    consequences would be that

       @foo = 1,2,3;

    would fill @foo with three elements instead of just the one as it does
    in Perl 5. Joe Gottman had a few questions about the implications of
    that, and wondered if Larry had actually ruled on it. Larry ruled that
    list construction would continue to require brackets (or, if you're
    American, parentheses) and went on to discuss some further implications
    of that.

    http://tinyurl.com/253ag

Acknowledgements, Apologies, Announcements
    Thankfully, this section's normal service is resumed this week. The only
    catch is, I can't think of anything to say.

    However, if you find these summaries useful or enjoyable, please
    consider contributing to the Perl Foundation to help support the
    development of Perl. You might also like to send me feedback at
    p6summarizer@bofh.org.uk, or drop by my website (New! Improved!
    listening on port 80! Still sadly lacking in desperately new content!)

    http://donate.perl-foundation.org/ -- The Perl Foundation

    http://dev.perl.org/perl6/ -- Perl 6 Development site

    http://www.bofh.org.uk/ -- My website, "Just a Summary"


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