perl.perl5.porters

perl.perl5.porters https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/ ... Copyright 1998-2023 perl.org Mon, 02 Oct 2023 17:27:33 +0000 ask@perl.org Re: Elevator pitch - independent symbol spaces by Branislav Zahradník Based on discussion on IRC, let's restart this idea with decomposing it here. First question: do we want independent symbol spaces? - I assume answer to this is "yes" What scope of symbols declared in independent symbol space should be supported? a) global ... example of such symbol is attribute `lvalue` or built-in functions (eg: say) b) package ... importable/exportable, addressable using full qualification c) lexical d) localized global scope may be restricted to internal use only What it should be used for: - built-in attributes (like lvalue, method, ...) - built-in data contracts (eg: Int) Brano https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/10/msg267122.html Mon, 02 Oct 2023 17:09:07 +0000 Test2 failures on blead? by demerphq Test2 seems to have spurious test failures on blead. See https://github.com/Perl/perl5/actions/runs/6364550056/job/17280983451?pr=21536 I see test failures like the following output: IPC Fatal Error: Not all files from hub '37113~0~1696096662~12' have been collected! Here is the leftover data: ======================== { "37113~0~1696096662~120~37119~0~2~Test2~Event~Ok.ready" : { "_eid" : "37119~0~1696096662~123", "effective_pass" : 1, "hubs" : [ { "buffered" : 1, "details" : "Test2::AsyncSubtest::Hub", "hid" : "37113~0~1696096662~120", "ipc" : 1, "nested" : 3, "pid" : 37113, "tid" : 0, "uuid" : null } ], "name" : "a", "pass" : 1, "trace" : { "buffered" : 1, "cid" : "37119~0~1696096662~122", "frame" : [ "main", "t/acceptance/Workflow-Acceptance.t", 23, "Test2::Tools::Basic::ok" ], "full_caller" : [ "main", "t/acceptance/Workflow-Acceptance.t", 23, "Test2::Tools::Basic::ok", true, null, null, null, 8390370, "UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU", null ], "hid" : "37113~0~1696096662~120", "nested" : 3, "pid" : 37119, "tid" : 0 } }, "37113~0~1696096662~120~37119~0~3~Test2~Event~Ok.ready" : { "_eid" : "37119~0~1696096662~125", "effective_pass" : 1, "hubs" : [ { "buffered" : 1, "details" : "Test2::AsyncSubtest::Hub", "hid" : "37113~0~1696096662~120", "ipc" : 1, "nested" : 3, "pid" : 37113, "tid" : 0, "uuid" : null } ], "name" : "ar start", "pass" : 1, "trace" : { "buffered" : 1, "cid" : "37119~0~1696096662~124", "frame" : [ "main", "t/acceptance/Workflow-Acceptance.t", 27, "Test2::Tools::Basic::ok" ], "full_caller" : [ "main", "t/acceptance/Workflow-Acceptance.t", 27, "Test2::Tools::Basic::ok", true, null, null, null, 8390370, "UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU", null ], "hid" : "37113~0~1696096662~120", "nested" : 3, "pid" : 37119, "tid" : 0 } }, "37113~0~1696096662~120~37119~0~4~Test2~Event~Ok.ready" : { "_eid" : "37119~0~1696096662~127", "effective_pass" : 1, "hubs" : [ { "buffered" : 1, "details" : "Test2::AsyncSubtest::Hub", "hid" : "37113~0~1696096662~120", "ipc" : 1, "nested" : 3, "pid" : 37113, "tid" : 0, "uuid" : null } ], "name" : "inside bar pid 37119 - tid 0", "pass" : 1, "trace" : { "buffered" : 1, "cid" : "37119~0~1696096662~126", "frame" : [ "main", "t/acceptance/Workflow-Acceptance.t", 47, "Test2::Tools::Basic::ok" ], "full_caller" : [ "main", "t/acceptance/Workflow-Acceptance.t", 47, "Test2::Tools::Basic::ok", true, null, null, null, 8390370, "UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU", null ], "hid" : "37113~0~1696096662~120", "nested" : 3, "pid" : 37119, "tid" : 0 } }, "37113~0~1696096662~120~37119~0~5~Test2~Event~Ok.ready" : { "_eid" : "37119~0~1696096662~129", "effective_pass" : 1, "hubs" : [ { "buffered" : 1, "details" : "Test2::AsyncSubtest::Hub", "hid" : "37113~0~1696096662~120", "ipc" : 1, "nested" : 3, "pid" : 37113, "tid" : 0, "uuid" : null } ], "name" : "ar end", "pass" : 1, "trace" : { "buffered" : 1, "cid" : "37119~0~1696096662~128", "frame" : [ "main", "t/acceptance/Workflow-Acceptance.t", 29, "Test2::Tools::Basic::ok" ], "full_caller" : [ "main", "t/acceptance/Workflow-Acceptance.t", 29, "Test2::Tools::Basic::ok", true, null, null, null, 8390626, "UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU", null ], "hid" : "37113~0~1696096662~120", "nested" : 3, "pid" : 37119, "tid" : 0 } }, "37113~0~1696096662~120~37119~0~6~Test2~Event~Ok.ready" : { "_eid" : "37119~0~1696096662~131", "effective_pass" : 1, "hubs" : [ { "buffered" : 1, "details" : "Test2::AsyncSubtest::Hub", "hid" : "37113~0~1696096662~120", "ipc" : 1, "nested" : 3, "pid" : 37113, "tid" : 0, "uuid" : null } ], "name" : "z", "pass" : 1, "trace" : { "buffered" : 1, "cid" : "37119~0~1696096662~130", "frame" : [ "main", "t/acceptance/Workflow-Acceptance.t", 32, "Test2::Tools::Basic::ok" ], "full_caller" : [ "main", "t/acceptance/Workflow-Acceptance.t", 32, "Test2::Tools::Basic::ok", true, null, null, null, 8390370, "UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU", null ], "hid" : "37113~0~1696096662~120", "nested" : 3, "pid" : 37119, "tid" : 0 } }, "37113~0~1696096662~120~37119~0~7~Test2~AsyncSubtest~Event~Detach.ready" : { "_eid" : "37119~0~1696096662~132", "hubs" : [ { "buffered" : 1, "details" : "Test2::AsyncSubtest::Hub", "hid" : "37113~0~1696096662~120", "ipc" : 1, "nested" : 3, "pid" : 37113, "tid" : 0, "uuid" : null } ], "id" : 1, "trace" : { "buffered" : 1, "cid" : "AsyncSubtest-12", "frame" : [ "Test2::Workflow::Runner", "../../lib/Test2/Workflow/Runner.pm", 217, "Test2::AsyncSubtest::detach", true, null, null, null, 1762, "UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU", null ], "hid" : "37113~0~1696096662~120", "huuid" : null, "nested" : 3, "uuid" : null } } } =================== at ../../lib/Test2/IPC/Driver/Files.pm line 149. Test2::IPC::Driver::Files::drop_hub(Test2::IPC::Driver::Files=HASH(0x564fe1214ae8), "37113~0~1696096662~12") called at ../../lib/Test2/AsyncSubtest.pm line 339 Test2::AsyncSubtest::finish(Test2::AsyncSubtest=HASH(0x564fe15f8c98)) called at ../../lib/Test2/Workflow/Runner.pm line 432 Test2::Workflow::Runner::cull(Test2::Workflow::Runner=HASH(0x564fe1534dd8)) called at ../../lib/Test2/Workflow/Runner.pm line 139 Test2::Workflow::Runner::run("AsyncSubtest-10") called at t/acceptance/Workflow-Acceptance.t line 41 main::<arc>(Test2::Workflow::Runner=HASH(0x564fe1534dd8)) called at ../../lib/Test2/Workflow/Runner.pm line 252 eval {...} called at ../../lib/Test2/Workflow/Runner.pm line 252 Test2::Workflow::Runner::run("37113~0~1696096662~16") called at t/acceptance/Workflow-Acceptance.t line 17 main::<al>(Test2::Workflow::Runner=HASH(0x564fe1534dd8)) called at ../../lib/Test2/Workflow/Runner.pm line 252 eval {...} called at ../../lib/Test2/Workflow/Runner.pm line 252 Test2::Workflow::Runner::run(Test2::Workflow::Runner=HASH(0x564fe1534dd8)) called at t/acceptance/Workflow-Acceptance.t line 80 Use of uninitialized value $end_time in subtraction (-) at ../lib/App/Prove/State.pm line 461. Bailout called. Further testing stopped: IPC Fatal Error: Not all files from hub '37113~0~1696096662~12' have been collected! ../cpan/Test2-Suite/t/acceptance/Workflow-Acceptance.t ............... ok Test run interrupted! All tests successful. Files=1825, Tests=773494, 323 wallclock secs (52.76 usr 5.55 sys + 360.69 cusr 35.24 csys = 454.24 CPU) Result: PASS All tests successful. Files=1825, Tests=773494, 323 wallclock secs (52.90 usr 5.55 sys + 360.69 cusr 35.24 csys = 454.38 CPU) Result: PASS FAILED--Further testing stopped: IPC Fatal Error: Not all files from hub '37113~0~1696096662~12' have been collected! Error: Process completed with exit code 25. -- perl -Mre=debug -e "/just|another|perl|hacker/" https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/10/msg267121.html Sun, 01 Oct 2023 09:47:02 +0000 Perl 5 Commit Summary by Perl 5 commit summary Perl 5 commit summary, activity since Wednesday Current branch blead 7 commits. 4 unique authors. 2 unique committers. 15 files changed, 23 insertions(+), 64 deletions(-) Net code removal: Karl Williamson (39 lines) Thanks, applied: James E Keenan (1) Karl Williamson (1) Snapshot: http://github.com/Perl/perl5/tarball/f7f6d418d6c3333d Add new contributor data to .mailmap James E Keenan 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/f7f6d418d6c3333d say that `ord` returns code points Gianni Ceccarelli 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/5d164ace56ff5a75 Gianni Ceccarelli is now a Perl author Karl Williamson 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/ea3b58c380fd0af5 perl.h: Turn mutex warning into a panic Karl Williamson 1 file changed, 4 insertions(+), 4 deletions(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/b1a94fceb233fe35 Remove PL_underlying_numeric_obj Karl Williamson 6 files changed, 48 deletions(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/2eef4bba59e4cb2b locale.c: Copy MB_CUR_MAX to a local Karl Williamson 1 file changed, 4 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/08d8b6fc15593f5d cpan/Math-BigInt - Update to version 1.999842 Peter John Acklam 5 files changed, 11 insertions(+), 8 deletions(- https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/451bb38c1aff2c8c New branch smoke-me/khw-WANT 2 commits. 1 unique author. 1 unique committer. Snapshot: http://github.com/Perl/perl5/tarball/bb7aa7dc6fb4ee49 locale.c: Handle input parameter Karl Williamson 1 file changed, 26 insertions(+) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/bb7aa7dc6fb4ee49 locale.c: Comments/white-space Karl Williamson 1 file changed, 7 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/d992599de60df185 Martian commit 5e2ee1671c38e60b3b7380956426371aa5715137 1 commit. 1 unique author. 1 unique committer. Snapshot: http://github.com/Perl/perl5/tarball/5e2ee1671c38e60b say that `ord` returns code points Gianni Ceccarelli 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/5e2ee1671c38e60b Ignored 47 GitHub auto-generated merge commits https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267120.html Sat, 30 Sep 2023 03:05:42 +0000 Re: `maint-5.38` branch is missing by Ricardo Signes Sorry about missing that! On Fri, Sep 29, 2023, at 04:37, Paul "LeoNerd" Evans wrote: > We don't appear to have a maint-5.38 branch; usually that would get > created as part of the release process but it seems to have been missed. > > Looking over the history, these are the commits just around the time: > > 2083cfe50f bump version to v5.39.0 > 76298ae68a (tag: v5.38.0) core team: mark Jason McIntosh as inactive > d180c8c4dc v5.38.0: the final changes before release! > > Moreover: > > $ git show -s 76298ae68a > commit 76298ae68aa7796f0ffc05095b127d23f4b2de8f (tag: v5.38.0) > Author: Ricardo Signes <rjbs@semiotic.systems> > Date: Sat Jul 1 20:48:27 2023 -0400 > > core team: mark Jason McIntosh as inactive > > > $ git show -s 2083cfe50f > commit 2083cfe50f1095a8f93484de8314e601c4abf109 > Author: Ricardo Signes <rjbs@semiotic.systems> > Date: Sat Jun 24 21:22:48 2023 -0400 > > bump version to v5.39.0 > > > I therefore think the maint-5.38 branch should come directly off the > tag; 76298ae68a > > Do we agree? > > -- > Paul "LeoNerd" Evans > > leonerd@leonerd.org.uk | https://metacpan.org/author/PEVANS > http://www.leonerd.org.uk/ | https://www.tindie.com/stores/leonerd/ > https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267119.html Sat, 30 Sep 2023 02:19:45 +0000 Re: `maint-5.38` branch is missing by Paul "LeoNerd" Evans On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 09:37:13 +0100 "Paul \"LeoNerd\" Evans" <leonerd@leonerd.org.uk> wrote: > We don't appear to have a maint-5.38 branch; usually that would get > created as part of the release process but it seems to have been > missed. > > Looking over the history, these are the commits just around the time: > > 2083cfe50f bump version to v5.39.0 > 76298ae68a (tag: v5.38.0) core team: mark Jason McIntosh as inactive > d180c8c4dc v5.38.0: the final changes before release! Actually furthermore this agrees with what the RMG says should be the steps to create it: $ git checkout -b maint-5.X v5.X.0 $ git push origin -u maint-5.X So I went ahead and made it. -- Paul "LeoNerd" Evans leonerd@leonerd.org.uk | https://metacpan.org/author/PEVANS http://www.leonerd.org.uk/ | https://www.tindie.com/stores/leonerd/ https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267118.html Fri, 29 Sep 2023 08:59:59 +0000 Re: `maint-5.38` branch is missing by Tony Cook On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 09:37:13AM +0100, Paul "LeoNerd" Evans wrote: > We don't appear to have a maint-5.38 branch; usually that would get > created as part of the release process but it seems to have been missed. > > Looking over the history, these are the commits just around the time: > > 2083cfe50f bump version to v5.39.0 > 76298ae68a (tag: v5.38.0) core team: mark Jason McIntosh as inactive > d180c8c4dc v5.38.0: the final changes before release! > > Moreover: > > $ git show -s 76298ae68a > commit 76298ae68aa7796f0ffc05095b127d23f4b2de8f (tag: v5.38.0) > Author: Ricardo Signes <rjbs@semiotic.systems> > Date: Sat Jul 1 20:48:27 2023 -0400 > > core team: mark Jason McIntosh as inactive > > > $ git show -s 2083cfe50f > commit 2083cfe50f1095a8f93484de8314e601c4abf109 > Author: Ricardo Signes <rjbs@semiotic.systems> > Date: Sat Jun 24 21:22:48 2023 -0400 > > bump version to v5.39.0 > > > I therefore think the maint-5.38 branch should come directly off the > tag; 76298ae68a > > Do we agree? The 5.38.0 tarball doesn't include 76298ae68, since Jason is still in perlgov: $ grep Jason perl-5.38.0/pod/perlgov.pod =item Jason McIntosh <jmac@jmac.org> but commit 76298ae68 is harmless so having maint-5.38 start there is fine. Tony https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267117.html Fri, 29 Sep 2023 08:54:46 +0000 `maint-5.38` branch is missing by Paul "LeoNerd" Evans We don't appear to have a maint-5.38 branch; usually that would get created as part of the release process but it seems to have been missed. Looking over the history, these are the commits just around the time: 2083cfe50f bump version to v5.39.0 76298ae68a (tag: v5.38.0) core team: mark Jason McIntosh as inactive d180c8c4dc v5.38.0: the final changes before release! Moreover: $ git show -s 76298ae68a commit 76298ae68aa7796f0ffc05095b127d23f4b2de8f (tag: v5.38.0) Author: Ricardo Signes <rjbs@semiotic.systems> Date: Sat Jul 1 20:48:27 2023 -0400 core team: mark Jason McIntosh as inactive $ git show -s 2083cfe50f commit 2083cfe50f1095a8f93484de8314e601c4abf109 Author: Ricardo Signes <rjbs@semiotic.systems> Date: Sat Jun 24 21:22:48 2023 -0400 bump version to v5.39.0 I therefore think the maint-5.38 branch should come directly off the tag; 76298ae68a Do we agree? -- Paul "LeoNerd" Evans leonerd@leonerd.org.uk | https://metacpan.org/author/PEVANS http://www.leonerd.org.uk/ | https://www.tindie.com/stores/leonerd/ https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267116.html Fri, 29 Sep 2023 08:37:31 +0000 PSC #118 2023-09-28 by Paul "LeoNerd" Evans All three of us returned. We talked about * Getting a Perl 5.38.1 maint release out of the door * How to progress Pod format improvements (i.e. `U<>`) -- Paul "LeoNerd" Evans leonerd@leonerd.org.uk | https://metacpan.org/author/PEVANS http://www.leonerd.org.uk/ | https://www.tindie.com/stores/leonerd/ https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267115.html Thu, 28 Sep 2023 16:09:30 +0000 Re: PPCs lacking implementors by Branislav Zahradník On Wed, 27 Sept 2023 at 16:33, Paul "LeoNerd" Evans <leonerd@leonerd.org.uk> wrote: > On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 09:31:17 +0200 > "Philippe Bruhat (BooK)" <book@cpan.org> wrote: > > > Porters, > > > > We have a number of now-approved PPCs awaiting implementation, and as > > far as we (PSC) know, no one has stepped forward to implement them. > > > > The PPCs in question are: > > * New module loading function (PPC 0006) (rather easy) > > * ${^ENGLISH_NAME} aliases for punctuation variables (PPC 0014) > > * Optional chaining (PPC 0021) (has some complications for methods and > > sub calls, but one could start with arrays and hashes) > > > > Volunteers welcome! > > To be further clear here: We're looking for people to actually write > and edit some code. > > I'd be happy to walk people through whatever process and steps are > required to work on any of these, as a way to help bring more people > into the mix of folks who can do this kind of thing. > > I'd like to test some improvements to this process in independent symbol spaces (well, if accepted) > -- > Paul "LeoNerd" Evans > > leonerd@leonerd.org.uk | https://metacpan.org/author/PEVANS > http://www.leonerd.org.uk/ | https://www.tindie.com/stores/leonerd/ > https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267114.html Thu, 28 Sep 2023 15:55:24 +0000 Re: refaliasing list assignment in list context by Ivan Vorontsov On Wed, 27 Sep 2023 09:05:50 +0300 Ivan Vorontsov <ivrntsv@yandex.ru> wrote: > On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 19:39:38 +0100 Dave Mitchell <davem@iabyn.com> wrote: > > > (1) > > $a = $m[0]; > > $b[0] = $m[1]; > > $b[1] = $m[2]; > > should be written as: > > ( (\$a, \(@b)) = (\$x, \$y, \$z) ) = @m; # it is your example > > > (2) > > \$a = $m[0]; # croaks if $m[i] isn't a ref > > \$b[0] = $m[1]; > > \$b[1] = $m[2]; > > should be written as: > > \( (\$a, \(@b)) = (\$x, \$y, \$z) ) = @m; > > > (3) > > \$a = \$m[0]; > > \$b[0] = \$m[1]; > > \$b[1] = \$m[2]; > > should be written as: > > \( (\$a, \(@b)) = (\$x, \$y, \$z) ) = \(@m); > > Perl has \(...) construct to specify reference assignment semantics to > elements the construct surrounds, and it lacks a construct to remove > reference assignment semantics. So there is no choice whatsoever. Inner > assignment (which is to references) returns aliased variables (not > references). When one wants apply reference assignment to the result > one utilizes \(...) construct. This way is also explicit what a > programmer wants. > > > foo( (\$a, \(@b)) = (\$x, \$y, \$z) ); > > > > in that case I would expect the args passed to foo() to be $a, $b[0], > > $b[1] rather than \$a etc. So (1) it is. > > Agree with that. > > > So my vague proposal is that we should change the behaviour of refaliasing > > in list lvalue/rvalue context so that the returned list is a list of > > the aliased SVs, not a list of temporary refs to aliased SVs. > > Agree with that. > > > Alternatively we could just croak in list context (either at compile time, > > or in runtime for something like sub f { ...; \(@a) = .... }. Or we could > > just decree that aassign returns the empty list in list context, or ... ? > > If it could be implemented I would rather have above described behavior. I'm wrong here. Examples are too narrow. \(...) doesn't work in a case when references and non-references are mixed. More intricate example: use feature 'refaliasing'; no warnings 'experimental'; use Data::Dumper (); my ($x, $y, $z); my ($v1, $v2, $v3); my ($v4, $v5, $v6) = qw(a b c); my ($v7, $v8, $v9) = (1, 2, 3); ( ($x, \$v1, \$v2, $y, \$v3, $z) = (11, \$v4, \$v5, 12, \$v6, 13) ) = (21, \$v7, \$v8, 22, \$v9, 23); print(Data::Dumper->new( [$x, $y, $z, \$v1, \$v2, \$v3, \$v4, \$v5, \$v6, \$v7, \$v8, \$v9], [qw(x y z v1 v2 v3 v4 v5 v6 v7 v8 v9)], )->Dump); Result: $x = 21; $y = 22; $z = 23; $v1 = \'a'; $v2 = \'b'; $v3 = \'c'; $v4 = $v1; # they are aliases, that's how Dumper depicts it $v5 = $v2; $v6 = $v3; $v7 = \1; $v8 = \2; $v9 = \3; What I would expect: $x = 21; $y = 22; $z = 23; $v1 = \1; $v2 = \2; $v3 = \3; $v4 = $v1; $v5 = $v2; $v6 = $v3; $v7 = $v1; $v8 = $v2; $v9 = $v3; Inner assignment should return references as references, then outer assignment should demand references to assign to them to alias. Reference assignment is "poisonous". There are references all the way. In function call context: > foo( (\$a, \(@b)) = (\$x, \$y, \$z) ); foo gets \$a, \$b[0], \$b[1]. When one wants different behavior two statements will work: (\$a, \(@b)) = (\$x, \$y, \$z); foo($a, @b); -- Ivan Vorontsov <ivrntsv@yandex.ru> https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267113.html Thu, 28 Sep 2023 06:09:00 +0000 Re: PPCs lacking implementors by Paul "LeoNerd" Evans On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 09:31:17 +0200 "Philippe Bruhat (BooK)" <book@cpan.org> wrote: > Porters, > > We have a number of now-approved PPCs awaiting implementation, and as > far as we (PSC) know, no one has stepped forward to implement them. > > The PPCs in question are: > * New module loading function (PPC 0006) (rather easy) > * ${^ENGLISH_NAME} aliases for punctuation variables (PPC 0014) > * Optional chaining (PPC 0021) (has some complications for methods and > sub calls, but one could start with arrays and hashes) > > Volunteers welcome! To be further clear here: We're looking for people to actually write and edit some code. I'd be happy to walk people through whatever process and steps are required to work on any of these, as a way to help bring more people into the mix of folks who can do this kind of thing. -- Paul "LeoNerd" Evans leonerd@leonerd.org.uk | https://metacpan.org/author/PEVANS http://www.leonerd.org.uk/ | https://www.tindie.com/stores/leonerd/ https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267112.html Wed, 27 Sep 2023 14:33:43 +0000 Re: refaliasing list assignment in list context by Ivan Vorontsov On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 19:39:38 +0100 Dave Mitchell <davem@iabyn.com> wrote: > (1) > $a = $m[0]; > $b[0] = $m[1]; > $b[1] = $m[2]; should be written as: ( (\$a, \(@b)) = (\$x, \$y, \$z) ) = @m; # it is your example > (2) > \$a = $m[0]; # croaks if $m[i] isn't a ref > \$b[0] = $m[1]; > \$b[1] = $m[2]; should be written as: \( (\$a, \(@b)) = (\$x, \$y, \$z) ) = @m; > (3) > \$a = \$m[0]; > \$b[0] = \$m[1]; > \$b[1] = \$m[2]; should be written as: \( (\$a, \(@b)) = (\$x, \$y, \$z) ) = \(@m); Perl has \(...) construct to specify reference assignment semantics to elements the construct surrounds, and it lacks a construct to remove reference assignment semantics. So there is no choice whatsoever. Inner assignment (which is to references) returns aliased variables (not references). When one wants apply reference assignment to the result one utilizes \(...) construct. This way is also explicit what a programmer wants. > foo( (\$a, \(@b)) = (\$x, \$y, \$z) ); > > in that case I would expect the args passed to foo() to be $a, $b[0], > $b[1] rather than \$a etc. So (1) it is. Agree with that. > So my vague proposal is that we should change the behaviour of refaliasing > in list lvalue/rvalue context so that the returned list is a list of > the aliased SVs, not a list of temporary refs to aliased SVs. Agree with that. > Alternatively we could just croak in list context (either at compile time, > or in runtime for something like sub f { ...; \(@a) = .... }. Or we could > just decree that aassign returns the empty list in list context, or ... ? If it could be implemented I would rather have above described behavior. -- Ivan Vorontsov <ivrntsv@yandex.ru> https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267111.html Wed, 27 Sep 2023 06:06:00 +0000 Perl 5 Commit Summary by Perl 5 commit summary Perl 5 commit summary, activity since Saturday Current branch blead 39 commits. 5 unique authors. 5 unique committers. 56 files changed, 1122 insertions(+), 436 deletions(-) Thanks, applied: mauke (3) James E Keenan (2) Yves Orton (1) Karl Williamson (1) Snapshot: http://github.com/Perl/perl5/tarball/c728cf57c695e33a builtin bundles: validate end of string correctly. Tony Cook 3 files changed, 7 insertions(+), 6 deletions(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/c728cf57c695e33a builtin: avoid the looseness of sscanf() parsing Tony Cook 2 files changed, 21 insertions(+), 11 deletions( https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/4f5a4bf5ec9a30e6 Devel::PPPort: fix PERL_VERSION_xx comparison macros Lukas Mai 1 file changed, 48 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/70d391de2d922d20 make-rmg-checklist: Make executable from anywhere Elvin Aslanov 1 file changed, 5 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/b5f24b1f49b3a977 Avoid build-time warning James E Keenan 2 files changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/f1a9bff9425f5b43 perldelta for fdf5d79df2c93 Tony Cook 1 file changed, 7 insertions(+) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/db96d0e81fe16f2c Several updates to support an argument stack over 2**31 entries on 64-bit sy Tony Cook 2 parents https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/fdf5d79df2c93aea 64-bit stack: call_sv mark and return value handling Tony Cook 5 files changed, 36 insertions(+), 15 deletions( https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/368aef349e40a088 64-bit stack: eval_sv() mark and argument count handling Tony Cook 5 files changed, 18 insertions(+), 6 deletions(- https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/f86ab41dd0ada1e6 64-bit stack: injected_constructor used an I32 Tony Cook 2 files changed, 11 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/528c41202d7320ea 64-bit stack: do_join() used I32 for number of items on the stack Tony Cook 2 files changed, 8 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/3730ded753d4c190 64-bit stack: apply() accepts arguments from the stack Tony Cook 5 files changed, 18 insertions(+), 5 deletions(- https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/bd47bb8e76111208 64-bit stack: pp_mapwhile Tony Cook 1 file changed, 5 insertions(+), 5 deletions(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/dd4350909e3009fa 64-bit stack: pp_syscall used I32 for the item count Tony Cook 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/8d8ed39a7b6ee4e9 64-bit stack: I32/U32 mis-use in pp_tie Tony Cook 2 files changed, 44 insertions(+), 4 deletions(- https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/848e2c205d14e98a 64-bit stack: list repeat (x) Tony Cook 2 files changed, 17 insertions(+), 5 deletions(- https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/494c5b7438ed198d 64-bit stack: grepwhile used I32 for the returned item count Tony Cook 2 files changed, 12 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/2b1a56964440a580 64-bit stack: pp_anonlist uses an I32 index Tony Cook 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/fa0c22a184c1a54a 64-bit stack: chop/chomp on an AV used 32-bit indexes Tony Cook 2 files changed, 10 insertions(+), 2 deletions(- https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/029fb41fb6bda06f 64-bit stack: pp_list used I32 to save the mark Tony Cook 1 file changed, 14 insertions(+) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/7ae5a6bd7448c09e 64-bit stack: reorganise to allow running single tests Tony Cook 1 file changed, 64 insertions(+), 44 deletions(- https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/a50cfe58a2845c7a 64-bit stack: XS boot helpers Tony Cook 6 files changed, 43 insertions(+), 17 deletions( https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/e74c65fe4e0efc29 64-bit stack: fix pp_split I32 stack base index Tony Cook 2 files changed, 12 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/3bbaf75567c3b92d 64-bit stack: fix the iteration context base stack index Tony Cook 2 files changed, 8 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/79dad5ac9784d5cd 64-bit stack: list slicing Tony Cook 2 files changed, 12 insertions(+), 3 deletions(- https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/0d2cef13166ff59d 64-bit stack: ensure XS sees the large parameter lists Tony Cook 3 files changed, 18 insertions(+), 5 deletions(- https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/51c2074396636394 64-bit stack: first pass, marks are now 64-bits on 64-bit platforms Tony Cook 12 files changed, 67 insertions(+), 32 deletions https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/c0588928a3ddf0a2 perldelta for 386907f061c18, 981e5d62ca86 Tony Cook 1 file changed, 7 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/d1183d1c8a1d2ee9 Revert "[perl #89544] Non-eval closures donât need CvOUTSIDE" Tony Cook 7 files changed, 8 insertions(+), 16 deletions(- https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/386907f061c1812e add TODO tests for 19370 Tony Cook 1 file changed, 14 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/981e5d62ca8690e3 feature: document feature bundle ':all' and why you don't use it Tony Cook 2 files changed, 28 insertions(+), 2 deletions(- https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/fc5e06749eb02ee8 regcomp_debug.c: change a mis-use of ASSUME() to STATIC_ASSERT_STMT() Tony Cook 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/53d7a807365401c3 regdump_intflags: there is no PL_reg_intflags_name[REG_INTFLAGS_NAME_SIZE] Tony Cook 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/cad68b1ca7c2937b stop coverity complaining about copying uninitialised tm_gmtoff, tm_zone Tony Cook 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/6958877b566164e5 cpan/Math-BigInt-FastCalc - Update to version 0.5015 Peter John Acklam 3 files changed, 5 insertions(+), 8 deletions(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/41d0ddc96a06ae00 cpan/Math-BigInt - Update to version 1.999841 Peter John Acklam 11 files changed, 544 insertions(+), 261 deletio https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/6a237533fb6ad788 perlre: remove statement suggesting /p is a no-op Lukas Mai 2 files changed, 4 insertions(+), 5 deletions(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/6380554d8853669c fix PERL_JNP_TO_DECIMAL_ Lukas Mai 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/de4a70f325814c20 fix PERL_VERSION_LE (for all x: x should be <= x) Lukas Mai 3 files changed, 44 insertions(+), 6 deletions(- https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/2963b49263728d75 Deleted branch smoke-me/jkeenan/xs-typemap-build-time-warning-20230922 Martian commit 1b5c6c409f9d491a86c89d4a977e1cc863341ca5 2 commits. 1 unique author. 1 unique committer. Snapshot: http://github.com/Perl/perl5/tarball/1b5c6c409f9d491a builtin bundles: validate end of string correctly. Tony Cook 3 files changed, 7 insertions(+), 6 deletions(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/1b5c6c409f9d491a builtin: avoid the looseness of sscanf() parsing Tony Cook 2 files changed, 21 insertions(+), 11 deletions( https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/95a9d8345db3aae4 Martian commit 0629723c9824572d321465a256a50a13e3100319 1 commit. 1 unique author. 1 unique committer. Snapshot: http://github.com/Perl/perl5/tarball/0629723c9824572d Devel::PPPort: fix PERL_VERSION_xx comparison macros Lukas Mai 1 file changed, 48 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/0629723c9824572d Martian commit a77af897f4127f5a2f0e048d01db938cece5ae56 1 commit. 1 unique author. 1 unique committer. Snapshot: http://github.com/Perl/perl5/tarball/a77af897f4127f5a Avoid build-time warning James E Keenan 2 files changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/a77af897f4127f5a Martian commit ac78ddde53a96647647c10f444c5c18a5b98e333 20 commits. 1 unique author. 1 unique committer. Snapshot: http://github.com/Perl/perl5/tarball/ac78ddde53a96647 64-bit stack: call_sv mark and return value handling Tony Cook 5 files changed, 36 insertions(+), 15 deletions( https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/ac78ddde53a96647 64-bit stack: eval_sv() mark and argument count handling Tony Cook 5 files changed, 18 insertions(+), 6 deletions(- https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/7921161b23ff9a59 64-bit stack: injected_constructor used an I32 Tony Cook 2 files changed, 11 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/e313313e43fd1332 64-bit stack: do_join() used I32 for number of items on the stack Tony Cook 2 files changed, 8 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/58e30a1a04b43646 64-bit stack: apply() accepts arguments from the stack Tony Cook 5 files changed, 18 insertions(+), 5 deletions(- https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/223f481aa7bdc211 64-bit stack: pp_mapwhile Tony Cook 1 file changed, 5 insertions(+), 5 deletions(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/04ad90bc07540772 64-bit stack: pp_syscall used I32 for the item count Tony Cook 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/a9605fdb08ecc8c6 64-bit stack: I32/U32 mis-use in pp_tie Tony Cook 2 files changed, 44 insertions(+), 4 deletions(- https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/4cefb8d027a33ae4 64-bit stack: list repeat (x) Tony Cook 2 files changed, 17 insertions(+), 5 deletions(- https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/da98ecf2f8ebfb1d 64-bit stack: grepwhile used I32 for the returned item count Tony Cook 2 files changed, 12 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/59d3447ebf1cb427 64-bit stack: pp_anonlist uses an I32 index Tony Cook 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/171a24a805c42258 64-bit stack: chop/chomp on an AV used 32-bit indexes Tony Cook 2 files changed, 10 insertions(+), 2 deletions(- https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/5bd940d5ea15f869 64-bit stack: pp_list used I32 to save the mark Tony Cook 1 file changed, 14 insertions(+) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/7880447e45a67813 64-bit stack: reorganise to allow running single tests Tony Cook 1 file changed, 64 insertions(+), 44 deletions(- https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/65f49acec54a6d27 64-bit stack: XS boot helpers Tony Cook 6 files changed, 43 insertions(+), 17 deletions( https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/4a6459d47af36fda 64-bit stack: fix pp_split I32 stack base index Tony Cook 2 files changed, 12 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/819c3b6b24cc96e0 64-bit stack: fix the iteration context base stack index Tony Cook 2 files changed, 8 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/599c54252aa0d38e 64-bit stack: list slicing Tony Cook 2 files changed, 12 insertions(+), 3 deletions(- https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/11f75206b55fd7d2 64-bit stack: ensure XS sees the large parameter lists Tony Cook 3 files changed, 18 insertions(+), 5 deletions(- https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/11ea1033ec0e1be1 64-bit stack: first pass, marks are now 64-bits on 64-bit platforms Tony Cook 12 files changed, 67 insertions(+), 32 deletions https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/895dcfe55e68db02 Ignored 49 GitHub auto-generated merge commits https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267110.html Wed, 27 Sep 2023 03:11:48 +0000 Re: PPCs lacking implementors by Ricardo Signes 🫡 On Tue, Sep 26, 2023, at 17:02, Avery Adams wrote: > Thank you Ricardo. I woke up to the message out of the blue and wondered what prompted such a message. > > Avery A. > > On Wed, 27 Sept 2023 at 06:37, Ricardo Signes <perl.p5p@rjbs.manxome.org> wrote: >> __ >> This is your warning, Brett. Stop it. >> >> Here's perlpolicy: >>> Civility is simple: stick to the facts while *avoiding demeaning remarks,*** >>> *belittling other individuals, sarcasm, or a presumption of bad faith*. It >>> is not enough to be factual. You must also be civil. Responding in kind >>> to incivility is not acceptable. If you relay otherwise-unposted >>> comments to the list from a third party, you take responsibility for the >>> content of those comments, and you must therefore ensure that they are >>> civil. >>> >>> While civility is required, kindness is encouraged; if you have any >>> doubt about whether you are being civil, simply ask yourself, "Am I >>> being kind?" and aspire to that. >> >> Posts to the list should enrich the lives of others and improve our shared work product. Your post does neither. >> >> If you continue to act like that, you will be removed from the list. >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 26, 2023, at 11:37, Oodler 577 via perl5-porters wrote: >>> * Philippe Bruhat (BooK) <book@cpan.org> [2023-09-25 09:31:17 +0200]: >>> >>> > Porters, >>> > >>> > We have a number of now-approved PPCs awaiting implementation, and as >>> > far as we (PSC) know, no one has stepped forward to implement them. >>> >>> < mild-shock.gif >>> >>> Why on earth would anyone want to do that, in this environment? >>> >>> > >>> > The PPCs in question are: >>> > * New module loading function (PPC 0006) (rather easy) >>> > * ${^ENGLISH_NAME} aliases for punctuation variables (PPC 0014) >>> > * Optional chaining (PPC 0021) (has some complications for methods and >>> > sub calls, but one could start with arrays and hashes) >>> > >>> > Volunteers welcome! >>> >>> Heard that before. >>> >>> Brett >>> >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Philippe Bruhat (BooK) >>> > >>> > Only a fool follows orders without knowing why. >>> > (Moral from Groo The Wanderer #86 (Epic)) >>> >>> -- >>> oodler@cpan.org ~> oodler577@sdf-eu.org >>> SDF-EU Public Access UNIX System - http://sdfeu.org >>> irc.perl.org #openmp #pdl #native >>> gopher://sdfeu.org/1/users/oodler577/ >>> >>> Carl Spackler: [preparing to dynamite the gopher tunnel] In the >>> immortal words of Jean Paul Sartre, Au revoir, gopher. >>> >> https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267109.html Wed, 27 Sep 2023 01:28:49 +0000 Re: PSC #117 2023-09-21 by Elvin Aslanov I don't like Markdown a lot. Org mode FTW! I'm sorry for a very raw comparison but switching POD to Markdown sounds like switching Perl to Python to me. I also wish Ricardo wrote CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md and SECURITY.md in POD rather than Markdown since GitHub supports rendering it as well (but unfortunately not much people care for such "minor violations"). On Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 6:44 PM Philippe Bruhat (BooK) <book@cpan.org> wrote: > Two of us again, here's the summary of our meeting: > > * While implementing PPC 0013, it turned out it was vague in some > places, so further discussions and refinements to the PPC document > are needed > * POD extensions - do we keep stealing features from Markdown (like > tables, images, language markers)? Do we switch to Markdown? > Neither are easy. > * Weâve disabled the Wiki and enabled Issues on the PPCs repository, > to better separate discussions on the form and substance of PPCs > * PPC 0022 will soon be merged, and moved to âExploratoryâ status > > -- > Philippe Bruhat (BooK) > > Only a fool follows orders without knowing why. > (Moral from Groo The Wanderer #86 > (Epic)) > https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267108.html Tue, 26 Sep 2023 23:04:32 +0000 Re: PPCs lacking implementors by Avery Adams Thank you Ricardo. I woke up to the message out of the blue and wondered what prompted such a message. Avery A. On Wed, 27 Sept 2023 at 06:37, Ricardo Signes <perl.p5p@rjbs.manxome.org> wrote: > This is your warning, Brett. Stop it. > > Here's perlpolicy: > > Civility is simple: stick to the facts while *avoiding demeaning remarks,* > *belittling other individuals, sarcasm, or a presumption of bad faith*. It > is not enough to be factual. You must also be civil. Responding in kind > to incivility is not acceptable. If you relay otherwise-unposted > comments to the list from a third party, you take responsibility for the > content of those comments, and you must therefore ensure that they are > civil. > > While civility is required, kindness is encouraged; if you have any > doubt about whether you are being civil, simply ask yourself, "Am I > being kind?" and aspire to that. > > > Posts to the list should enrich the lives of others and improve our shared > work product. Your post does neither. > > If you continue to act like that, you will be removed from the list. > > > On Tue, Sep 26, 2023, at 11:37, Oodler 577 via perl5-porters wrote: > > * Philippe Bruhat (BooK) <book@cpan.org> [2023-09-25 09:31:17 +0200]: > > > Porters, > > > > We have a number of now-approved PPCs awaiting implementation, and as > > far as we (PSC) know, no one has stepped forward to implement them. > > < mild-shock.gif > > Why on earth would anyone want to do that, in this environment? > > > > > The PPCs in question are: > > * New module loading function (PPC 0006) (rather easy) > > * ${^ENGLISH_NAME} aliases for punctuation variables (PPC 0014) > > * Optional chaining (PPC 0021) (has some complications for methods and > > sub calls, but one could start with arrays and hashes) > > > > Volunteers welcome! > > Heard that before. > > Brett > > > > > -- > > Philippe Bruhat (BooK) > > > > Only a fool follows orders without knowing why. > > (Moral from Groo The Wanderer #86 > (Epic)) > > -- > oodler@cpan.org ~> oodler577@sdf-eu.org > SDF-EU Public Access UNIX System - http://sdfeu.org > irc.perl.org #openmp #pdl #native > gopher://sdfeu.org/1/users/oodler577/ > > Carl Spackler: [preparing to dynamite the gopher tunnel] In the > immortal words of Jean Paul Sartre, Au revoir, gopher. > > > https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267107.html Tue, 26 Sep 2023 21:02:38 +0000 Re: PPCs lacking implementors by Ricardo Signes This is your warning, Brett. Stop it. Here's perlpolicy: > Civility is simple: stick to the facts while *avoiding demeaning remarks,** * > *belittling other individuals, sarcasm, or a presumption of bad faith*. It > is not enough to be factual. You must also be civil. Responding in kind > to incivility is not acceptable. If you relay otherwise-unposted > comments to the list from a third party, you take responsibility for the > content of those comments, and you must therefore ensure that they are > civil. > > While civility is required, kindness is encouraged; if you have any > doubt about whether you are being civil, simply ask yourself, "Am I > being kind?" and aspire to that. Posts to the list should enrich the lives of others and improve our shared work product. Your post does neither. If you continue to act like that, you will be removed from the list. On Tue, Sep 26, 2023, at 11:37, Oodler 577 via perl5-porters wrote: > * Philippe Bruhat (BooK) <book@cpan.org> [2023-09-25 09:31:17 +0200]: > > > Porters, > > > > We have a number of now-approved PPCs awaiting implementation, and as > > far as we (PSC) know, no one has stepped forward to implement them. > > < mild-shock.gif > > Why on earth would anyone want to do that, in this environment? > > > > > The PPCs in question are: > > * New module loading function (PPC 0006) (rather easy) > > * ${^ENGLISH_NAME} aliases for punctuation variables (PPC 0014) > > * Optional chaining (PPC 0021) (has some complications for methods and > > sub calls, but one could start with arrays and hashes) > > > > Volunteers welcome! > > Heard that before. > > Brett > > > > > -- > > Philippe Bruhat (BooK) > > > > Only a fool follows orders without knowing why. > > (Moral from Groo The Wanderer #86 (Epic)) > > -- > oodler@cpan.org ~> oodler577@sdf-eu.org > SDF-EU Public Access UNIX System - http://sdfeu.org > irc.perl.org #openmp #pdl #native > gopher://sdfeu.org/1/users/oodler577/ > > Carl Spackler: [preparing to dynamite the gopher tunnel] In the > immortal words of Jean Paul Sartre, Au revoir, gopher. > https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267106.html Tue, 26 Sep 2023 17:37:37 +0000 Re: PPCs lacking implementors by Dan Book On Tue, Sep 26, 2023 at 11:38â¯AM Oodler 577 via perl5-porters < perl5-porters@perl.org> wrote: > * Philippe Bruhat (BooK) <book@cpan.org> [2023-09-25 09:31:17 +0200]: > > > Porters, > > > > We have a number of now-approved PPCs awaiting implementation, and as > > far as we (PSC) know, no one has stepped forward to implement them. > > < mild-shock.gif > > Why on earth would anyone want to do that, in this environment? > > > > > The PPCs in question are: > > * New module loading function (PPC 0006) (rather easy) > > * ${^ENGLISH_NAME} aliases for punctuation variables (PPC 0014) > > * Optional chaining (PPC 0021) (has some complications for methods and > > sub calls, but one could start with arrays and hashes) > > > > Volunteers welcome! > > Heard that before. > > Brett This is one of those messages better left unsent. -Dan https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267105.html Tue, 26 Sep 2023 17:30:09 +0000 Re: PPCs lacking implementors by Oodler 577 via perl5-porters * Philippe Bruhat (BooK) <book@cpan.org> [2023-09-25 09:31:17 +0200]: > Porters, > > We have a number of now-approved PPCs awaiting implementation, and as > far as we (PSC) know, no one has stepped forward to implement them. < mild-shock.gif Why on earth would anyone want to do that, in this environment? > > The PPCs in question are: > * New module loading function (PPC 0006) (rather easy) > * ${^ENGLISH_NAME} aliases for punctuation variables (PPC 0014) > * Optional chaining (PPC 0021) (has some complications for methods and > sub calls, but one could start with arrays and hashes) > > Volunteers welcome! Heard that before. Brett > > -- > Philippe Bruhat (BooK) > > Only a fool follows orders without knowing why. > (Moral from Groo The Wanderer #86 (Epic)) -- oodler@cpan.org ~> oodler577@sdf-eu.org SDF-EU Public Access UNIX System - http://sdfeu.org irc.perl.org #openmp #pdl #native gopher://sdfeu.org/1/users/oodler577/ Carl Spackler: [preparing to dynamite the gopher tunnel] In the immortal words of Jean Paul Sartre, Au revoir, gopher. https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267104.html Tue, 26 Sep 2023 15:38:04 +0000 Re: PPCs lacking implementors by book On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 10:55:41AM -0400, Perl 5 Porters wrote: > On 9/25/23 03:31, Philippe Bruhat (BooK) wrote: > > Porters, > > > > We have a number of now-approved PPCs awaiting implementation... > > Would be a good idea to declare what "PPC" stands for and why : > It's all explained at https://github.com/perl/PPCs > > Volunteers welcome! > > > > Tough to know what to say when I have no idea what a "PPC" is. Yeah, one of the documentaion pages should describe some of the process. However, even if we have numbered over 20 such proposals, and several of them have become part of stable Perl, the process is still being worked out. -- Philippe Bruhat (BooK) The faster the climb, the swifter the fall. (Moral from Groo The Wanderer #87 (Epic)) https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267103.html Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:29:19 +0000 Re: PPCs lacking implementors by Dennis Clarke via perl5-porters On 9/25/23 03:31, Philippe Bruhat (BooK) wrote: > Porters, > > We have a number of now-approved PPCs awaiting implementation... Would be a good idea to declare what "PPC" stands for and why : > Volunteers welcome! > Tough to know what to say when I have no idea what a "PPC" is. -- Dennis Clarke RISC-V/SPARC/PPC/ARM/CISC UNIX and Linux spoken https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267102.html Mon, 25 Sep 2023 14:55:58 +0000 Re: Elevator pitch - independent symbol spaces by Branislav Zahradník On Mon, 25 Sept 2023 at 14:21, Paul "LeoNerd" Evans <leonerd@leonerd.org.uk> wrote: > On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 13:59:18 +0200 > Branislav ZahradnÃk <happy.barney@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi porters, > > > > I tried to write down proposal for generic independent symbol spaces, > > not only for Oshun's > > data contract checks but little bit more abstract / generic so it can > > handle for example attribute > > as well. > > Independent namespaces sound good at first glance, yes.. but see below. > Thanks, I was already running in circles. > > > This is first of three intertwined ideas related to Oshun. > > > > Shortly: > > - add support to store non-core symbols in current structures (GV) > > Ah - that's where I'm less convinced. > > GVs are how the (global) symbol table is implemented. Which means these > namespaces are global package-shaped, rather than being lexical. > > For something like constraint check names for Oshun, or similar other > kinds of ideas, I'd be more keen to see them /lexically/ available > rather than stuffed into the symbol table. > Independent symbol spaces are meant to be abstract framework for any kind of symbols, not only Oshun. Even there there is space for both kind of symbols. As I wrote it down in Open questions, I don't know (yet) how pad works so that that's why lexical part is missing. > > -- > Paul "LeoNerd" Evans > > leonerd@leonerd.org.uk | https://metacpan.org/author/PEVANS > http://www.leonerd.org.uk/ | https://www.tindie.com/stores/leonerd/ > https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267101.html Mon, 25 Sep 2023 12:29:24 +0000 Re: Elevator pitch - independent symbol spaces by Paul "LeoNerd" Evans On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 13:59:18 +0200 Branislav Zahradník <happy.barney@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi porters, > > I tried to write down proposal for generic independent symbol spaces, > not only for Oshun's > data contract checks but little bit more abstract / generic so it can > handle for example attribute > as well. Independent namespaces sound good at first glance, yes.. but see below. > This is first of three intertwined ideas related to Oshun. > > Shortly: > - add support to store non-core symbols in current structures (GV) Ah - that's where I'm less convinced. GVs are how the (global) symbol table is implemented. Which means these namespaces are global package-shaped, rather than being lexical. For something like constraint check names for Oshun, or similar other kinds of ideas, I'd be more keen to see them /lexically/ available rather than stuffed into the symbol table. -- Paul "LeoNerd" Evans leonerd@leonerd.org.uk | https://metacpan.org/author/PEVANS http://www.leonerd.org.uk/ | https://www.tindie.com/stores/leonerd/ https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267100.html Mon, 25 Sep 2023 12:21:30 +0000 Re: PPCs lacking implementors by Branislav Zahradník On Mon, 25 Sept 2023 at 09:31, Philippe Bruhat (BooK) <book@cpan.org> wrote: > Porters, > > We have a number of now-approved PPCs awaiting implementation, and as > far as we (PSC) know, no one has stepped forward to implement them. > > The PPCs in question are: > * New module loading function (PPC 0006) (rather easy) > This rather should be attributes driven functionality require :module $module_name; (with few more attributes like :relative :reload(true | false)) > * ${^ENGLISH_NAME} aliases for punctuation variables (PPC 0014) > * Optional chaining (PPC 0021) (has some complications for methods and > sub calls, but one could start with arrays and hashes) > I have simple solution for this as part of one of there ideas related to Oshun (one which I'm currently writing down) > > Volunteers welcome! > > -- > Philippe Bruhat (BooK) > > Only a fool follows orders without knowing why. > (Moral from Groo The Wanderer #86 > (Epic)) > https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267099.html Mon, 25 Sep 2023 12:10:00 +0000 Elevator pitch - independent symbol spaces by Branislav Zahradník Hi porters, I tried to write down proposal for generic independent symbol spaces, not only for Oshun's data contract checks but little bit more abstract / generic so it can handle for example attribute as well. This is first of three intertwined ideas related to Oshun. Shortly: - add support to store non-core symbols in current structures (GV) - add C API to register new symbol spaces (including use of plugin grammars for symbol values) - add generic `declare` statement and `declared` expression - first try on import mechanism Full spec is available at https://github.com/happy-barney/perl-wish-list/blob/master/independent-symbol-spaces/README.md Best regards, Brano https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267098.html Mon, 25 Sep 2023 11:59:37 +0000 Re: PSC #117 2023-09-21 by demerphq On Mon, 25 Sept 2023 at 10:39, John SJ Anderson <john@genehack.org> wrote: > On Sep 24, 2023, at 13:16, Michael Conrad <mike@nrdvana.net> wrote: > > The second problem is that the original daring-fireball version of > Markdown (which was defined in Perl, even!) isn't probably what the average > person would want for Markdown. Case in point, you can't "steal features > like tables from markdown" because original markdown doesn't have tables. > > > The original DF Markdown _did_ support tables, because the original DF > Markdown definitionally allows HTML to be included inline in a Markdown > document â see https://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/syntax#html, > which spells this out. > > I suspect this makes it a bigger mess to add to POD rather than a smaller > one. > The original POD parsers also supported tables. It just never made it into the POD definition itself. I forget the syntax however, but i do remember making use of it back in the 5.6/5.8 period, and hacking on the code involved in one of the POD converters, pod2html I think. I think we lost it when POD was standardized and we removed some of the hand rolled converters. Yves -- perl -Mre=debug -e "/just|another|perl|hacker/" https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267097.html Mon, 25 Sep 2023 09:04:27 +0000 Re: PSC #117 2023-09-21 by John SJ Anderson > On Sep 24, 2023, at 13:16, Michael Conrad <mike@nrdvana.net> wrote: > > The second problem is that the original daring-fireball version of Markdown (which was defined in Perl, even!) isn't probably what the average person would want for Markdown. Case in point, you can't "steal features like tables from markdown" because original markdown doesn't have tables. The original DF Markdown _did_ support tables, because the original DF Markdown definitionally allows HTML to be included inline in a Markdown document — see https://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/syntax#html, which spells this out. I suspect this makes it a bigger mess to add to POD rather than a smaller one. j. -- John SJ Anderson // john@genehack.org https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267096.html Mon, 25 Sep 2023 08:39:28 +0000 PPCs lacking implementors by book Porters, We have a number of now-approved PPCs awaiting implementation, and as far as we (PSC) know, no one has stepped forward to implement them. The PPCs in question are: * New module loading function (PPC 0006) (rather easy) * ${^ENGLISH_NAME} aliases for punctuation variables (PPC 0014) * Optional chaining (PPC 0021) (has some complications for methods and sub calls, but one could start with arrays and hashes) Volunteers welcome! -- Philippe Bruhat (BooK) Only a fool follows orders without knowing why. (Moral from Groo The Wanderer #86 (Epic)) https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267095.html Mon, 25 Sep 2023 07:31:27 +0000 Re: PSC #117 2023-09-21 by Paul "LeoNerd" Evans On Sun, 24 Sep 2023 16:16:46 -0400 Michael Conrad <mike@nrdvana.net> wrote: > Actually, that part might not be hard at all.  If there was a new pod > directive "=md" that parses everything until the next POD directive > as Markdown ... > The bigger problems I see would be that 1) Markdown is defined in > terms of HTML, and 2) nobody wants "standard" markdown. ... You've basically made exactly the same points we made ourselves, and concluded it's far more complex than it first appears... -- Paul "LeoNerd" Evans leonerd@leonerd.org.uk | https://metacpan.org/author/PEVANS http://www.leonerd.org.uk/ | https://www.tindie.com/stores/leonerd/ https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267094.html Sun, 24 Sep 2023 20:31:41 +0000 Re: PSC #117 2023-09-21 by Michael Conrad On 9/23/23 14:34, Tomasz Konojacki wrote: > On Sat, 23 Sep 2023 16:59:46 +0200 > "Philippe Bruhat (BooK)" <book@cpan.org> wrote: > >> * POD extensions - do we keep stealing features from Markdown (like >> tables, images, language markers)? Do we switch to Markdown? >> Neither are easy. > Transition to a different markup language would take many years and I'm > not sure it would actually gain us anything. And fragmentation is never > a good thing. Actually, that part might not be hard at all.  If there was a new pod directive "=md" that parses everything until the next POD directive as Markdown, then as soon as Pod::Simple supports it, everyone can use it just by installing the latest Pod::Simple.  In fact, some of this work is already done by Markdown::Pod, and Markdent (but would need reimplemented to not use Moose).  There would be a little more effort to tell Metacpan to look for standalone .md files containing documentation. The bigger problems I see would be that 1) Markdown is defined in terms of HTML, and 2) nobody wants "standard" markdown. The first is a problem because most existing markdown parsers pass through HTML elements, giving users the ability to supply their own HTML any time Markdown isn't enough.  That won't work for generating Troff output for man pages or console perldoc.  So, POD's markdown could either omit that part, or be paired with some kind of HTML-to-Troff converter if one exists. The second problem is that the original daring-fireball version of Markdown (which was defined in Perl, even!) isn't probably what the average person would want for Markdown.  Case in point, you can't "steal features like tables from markdown" because original markdown doesn't have tables.  There would need to be a bikeshed war over which markdown features got included and which implementation's semantics to use.  (I'd vote GitHub's)  Also Markdown isn't very future-proof, because the slightest changes to parsing rules could break interpretation of old docs.  Though, that could be handed with a version in the pod directive, like "=md2"  "=md3" and so on if it came to that. Anyway, I would also love it if I could use the shorter Markdown notations in my Perl modules. https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267093.html Sun, 24 Sep 2023 20:16:54 +0000 Re: PSC #117 2023-09-21 by Darren Duncan For what I want, I already switched to Markdown wholesale everywhere I had previously been using POD as a general documentation format. I found them reasonably comparable but that Markdown was a lot less verbose. Certain things Markdown seemed to fall short of POD such as the cleanliness of navigation links. And I'm speaking of standard Markdown that works everywhere not extensions that only work in some places. I'm currently naive as to what if any support there is in Perl or its toolchain for Markdown now, but I feel it would be valuable if Markdown was supported by both or especially the toolchain as an official alternative to POD. The simpler scenario is that Markdown files could be supported in the same way as standalone POD-only .pod files are supported now, and the toolchain would handle either in the same way. A more complicated scenario would be somehow supporting embedding Markdown inside Perl source files .pl, .pm etc if that is useful. This would be required for it to be an eventual full replacement for POD everywhere if one wanted to do that. However, while embedding POD in Perl source files is a very useful feature in principle and I can see benefits of it, particularly for interleaving docs with what routines etc they document, I found in practice that when I wrote POD it actually worked best for me to have it in wholly separate files. See https://metacpan.org/dist/Set-Relation for an example of my preferred POD practice, where Perl source files don't have any POD in them, the POD is separate. A key reason I find separate files are better is that the optimal structure for documentation is not the same order as the optimal structure for code, and separate files means each can be optimized for its purpose without being forced to align with each other because routine docs must be beside the routines they describe and so on. And so, at least for people that follow my recommended practice of docs being in separate files, the much simpler support for standalone Markdown files without embedding it in Perl files would be sufficient. -- Darren Duncan On 2023-09-23 1:11 p.m., Paul "LeoNerd" Evans wrote: > On Sat, 23 Sep 2023 10:02:18 -0700 > Scott Baker <scott@perturb.org> wrote: > >> I'm curious how "switch to Markdown" would even work? > > It prettymuch wouldn't. There's too many moving parts everywhere. > > But we discussed it anyway just to come to that conclusion, and be > prepared to explain it to the folks that inevitably will say "drop POD > in favour of Markdown rather than keep stealing its features". > https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267092.html Sat, 23 Sep 2023 21:25:48 +0000 Re: PSC #117 2023-09-21 by Paul "LeoNerd" Evans On Sat, 23 Sep 2023 10:02:18 -0700 Scott Baker <scott@perturb.org> wrote: > I'm curious how "switch to Markdown" would even work? It prettymuch wouldn't. There's too many moving parts everywhere. But we discussed it anyway just to come to that conclusion, and be prepared to explain it to the folks that inevitably will say "drop POD in favour of Markdown rather than keep stealing its features". -- Paul "LeoNerd" Evans leonerd@leonerd.org.uk | https://metacpan.org/author/PEVANS http://www.leonerd.org.uk/ | https://www.tindie.com/stores/leonerd/ https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267091.html Sat, 23 Sep 2023 20:11:48 +0000 Re: PSC #117 2023-09-21 by Tomasz Konojacki On Sat, 23 Sep 2023 16:59:46 +0200 "Philippe Bruhat (BooK)" <book@cpan.org> wrote: > * POD extensions - do we keep stealing features from Markdown (like > tables, images, language markers)? Do we switch to Markdown? > Neither are easy. Transition to a different markup language would take many years and I'm not sure it would actually gain us anything. And fragmentation is never a good thing. https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267090.html Sat, 23 Sep 2023 18:34:26 +0000 Re: PSC #117 2023-09-21 by Scott Baker I'm curious how "switch to Markdown" would even work? I love Markdown, it's used in a ton of places. I'd love to see Perl support it... but I have no idea how an implementation would even look. On 9/23/2023 7:59 AM, Philippe Bruhat (BooK) wrote: > Two of us again, here's the summary of our meeting: > > * While implementing PPC 0013, it turned out it was vague in some > places, so further discussions and refinements to the PPC document > are needed > * POD extensions - do we keep stealing features from Markdown (like > tables, images, language markers)? Do we switch to Markdown? > Neither are easy. > * We’ve disabled the Wiki and enabled Issues on the PPCs repository, > to better separate discussions on the form and substance of PPCs > * PPC 0022 will soon be merged, and moved to “Exploratory” status > https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267089.html Sat, 23 Sep 2023 17:02:26 +0000 Re: TONYC Grant Report August 2023 by Elvin Aslanov Thanks On Thu, Sep 21, 2023, 11:24 AM Tony Cook <tony@develop-help.com> wrote: > [Hours] [Activity] > 2023/08/01 Tuesday > 0.20 look at new coverity hits, briefly discuss with khw > 0.27 github notifications > 0.87 #21306 review and briefly comment > 0.05 #21084 check latest CI results, apply to blead > 0.13 #21296 test blead with the fix, close this PR > 0.28 coverity look at older hits, one harmless, another false > positive (in the context of perl) > 0.18 #21181 apply to blead, perldelta > 0.42 #21212 comment > 1.28 #21313 testing > ===== > 3.68 > > 2023/08/02 Wednesday > 0.08 #21306 review new changes and approve > 0.37 #21304 comment > 3.05 #21313 debugging > 2.42 #21313 more debugging, long comment, testing, more comment > ===== > 5.92 > > 2023/08/03 Thursday > 0.23 #21000 review and comment > 1.18 #21323 review and comment > 1.50 #21313 make a more portable change and testing > 0.98 #21313 clean up and more testing, psuh to PR 21324 > 1.20 #21313 debugging remaining test failure - turns out to be > a known bug upstream > ===== > 5.09 > > 2023/08/07 Monday > 1.92 #21313 research, minor fix, apply to blead, perldelta > 0.27 #21314 apply to blead, check if docs need update > 0.77 #21313 re-work patch for remaining bug, pr perl- > libwin32/win32#39 > 1.10 #17452 reproduce, work on a fix, testing > ===== > 4.06 > > 2023/08/08 Tuesday > 0.68 github notifications > 0.07 #21325 review and trigger CI > 0.43 #21333 review, code archaeology: why was SIG localized? > ask for a test case > 0.23 #21325 add to authors, bump strict version and apply to > blead > 0.08 #21328 review and approve > 0.82 #21334 review and approve with a comment > 0.08 #21335 review and approve > 0.12 #21336 review and approve > 0.10 #21337 review and approve (and watch github flake out) > 0.03 #21338 review and approve > 0.05 #21339 review and approve > 1.55 #20890 debugging, try to understand how this is meant to > work, long comment > ===== > 4.24 > > 2023/08/09 Wednesday > 0.75 github notifications > 0.22 more github notifications > 0.53 #21333 review and approve, comment > 0.25 #21331 comment > 0.20 #21340 review and comment > 0.73 #21341 review, research, comment and approve > 0.10 #21342 review and approve > 0.08 #21343 review and approve > 0.37 #21344 review and approve > 0.08 #21345 review and apply (had another approval) > 0.18 #21346 review, testing and comment > 0.07 #21348 review and approve > ===== > 3.56 > > 2023/08/10 Thursday > 0.25 github notifications > 1.22 #21340 review modifications, research, comments > 0.90 #21347 review and melt brain > 0.53 #21332 work up a fix and make PR 21359 > 1.50 #21350 debugging > ===== > 4.40 > > 2023/08/14 Monday > 0.30 #21347 review and approve > 0.07 #21355 review and approve > 0.90 #21358 review and comment > 0.33 #21359 apply to blead, perldelta > 0.27 #21361 review and approve > 0.10 #21362, #21363, #21364 review and approve > ===== > 1.97 > > 2023/08/15 Tuesday > 0.17 #21340 follow up > 0.05 #21333 apply to blead > 1.20 #21375 review and comments > 0.45 #21376 try to reproduce CI failure, reproduce and comment > 0.10 #21377 review and approve > 0.62 #21340 follow up > ===== > 2.59 > > 2023/08/16 Wednesday > 0.38 #21375 follow up comment > 0.05 #21376 review after changes and approve > 0.35 ppc#25 comments > 0.65 #21379 research and comment > 0.17 #21330 review and approve > ===== > 1.60 > > 2023/08/17 Thursday > 0.23 ppc#25 follow-up comment > 0.13 #21385 review and comment > 0.25 #21375 re-review and comment > 0.07 #21374 review and approve > ===== > 0.68 > > 2023/08/21 Monday > 0.22 #21387 follow-up and close > 0.20 #21350 research and comment > 0.30 #20917 rebase, testing > 0.97 #20917 more testing, push for re-CI (donât pass until > corelist update) > 0.07 #21379 check latest changes and approve > 0.05 #21395 review and approve > 0.02 #21407 review and apply to blead > 0.12 #21161 rebase, testing > ===== > 1.95 > > 2023/08/23 Wednesday > 0.13 #20917 rebase on corelist fix > 0.12 #19426 rebase on corelist fix > 0.17 #21329 re-check and apply to blead, perldelta > 0.13 #21394 review and comment > 0.38 #21392 review and approve > 0.13 #21391 review and approve > 0.40 #21351 review and approve > 0.47 #21415 research > 2.15 #21415 testing, yet another cop_features fix, more > testing, push candidate for CI > ===== > 4.08 > > 2023/08/24 Thursday > 0.95 #21415 testing, polish, make PR 21421 > 0.63 #21419 review and comments > 0.77 #18606 simplify some old work, testing, push for CI > ===== > 2.35 > > 2023/08/28 Monday > 0.40 #21431 review, research and comment > 0.20 #21419 comment > 0.15 #21411 comment > 1.52 #21415 re-work > 0.72 #21415 more re-work and push > 0.28 #21390 review and comments > 0.43 #21389 review, comment and approve > ===== > 3.70 > > 2023/08/29 Tuesday > 0.10 #21390 review updates and approve > 0.62 #21415 updates > 0.10 #21420 review and apply to blead > 0.37 #21422 review > 0.37 #21422 more review, approve > 0.80 review coverity results > ===== > 2.36 > > 2023/08/30 Wednesday > 0.28 #21419 look over updates > 0.15 #21433 review and comment > 1.80 #21434 review and approve > 0.23 #21428 review, testing and comment > 1.63 more review coverity results, push some changes for CI > ===== > 4.09 > > 2023/08/31 Thursday > 0.12 #21433 review changes and apply to blead > 0.05 #21428 review changes and approve > 1.15 #21421 apply to blead, perldelta > 0.28 #21435 review and approve > 0.10 #21436 review and approve > 0.57 #19376 review existing docs and think how to re-work > ===== > 2.27 > > Which I calculate is 58.59 hours. > > Approximately 73 tickets were reviewed or worked on, and 13 patches > were applied. > https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267088.html Sat, 23 Sep 2023 16:12:50 +0000 PSC #117 2023-09-21 by book Two of us again, here's the summary of our meeting: * While implementing PPC 0013, it turned out it was vague in some places, so further discussions and refinements to the PPC document are needed * POD extensions - do we keep stealing features from Markdown (like tables, images, language markers)? Do we switch to Markdown? Neither are easy. * We’ve disabled the Wiki and enabled Issues on the PPCs repository, to better separate discussions on the form and substance of PPCs * PPC 0022 will soon be merged, and moved to “Exploratory” status -- Philippe Bruhat (BooK) Only a fool follows orders without knowing why. (Moral from Groo The Wanderer #86 (Epic)) https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267087.html Sat, 23 Sep 2023 15:26:55 +0000 PSC #116 2023-09-14 by book Porters, There were only two of us this week, and the list is still a bit quiet. The main topic was stalled PPC work: we have a few PPCs that have been approved and are in the “Implementing” state, but still waiting for an implementor. We’ll send a separate email asking for volunteers on those. -- Philippe Bruhat (BooK) Where there are hearts of gold, there is no need for bars of steel. (Moral from Groo The Wanderer #103 (Epic)) https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267086.html Sat, 23 Sep 2023 15:26:55 +0000 Perl 5 Commit Summary by Perl 5 commit summary Perl 5 commit summary, activity since Wednesday Current branch blead 20 commits. 3 unique authors. 4 unique committers. 311 files changed, 41731 insertions(+), 874 deletions(-) Thanks, applied: Paul Evans (7) James E Keenan (1) Snapshot: http://github.com/Perl/perl5/tarball/01272778386cb9c4 core-cpan-diff: Add option bundling Elvin Aslanov 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/01272778386cb9c4 Implement `builtin` version bundles Paul "LeoNerd" Evans 4 files changed, 145 insertions(+), 27 deletions https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/5a94e09438820dc7 builtin.c: Don't store the 'builtin::' name prefix in the table of functions Paul "LeoNerd" Evans 1 file changed, 29 insertions(+), 28 deletions(- https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/d0364e1bd71fa2e6 Unit-test that `class NAME VERSION :ATTRS` syntax works Paul "LeoNerd" Evans 1 file changed, 9 insertions(+) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/b0cb9aaabb0cdb92 bump version.pm to 0.9930 Paul "LeoNerd" Evans 14 files changed, 682 insertions(+), 607 deletio https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/cd622ffb09d80e36 perldelta for 6281b77: Add Term-Table and Test2-Suite Paul "LeoNerd" Evans 1 file changed, 15 insertions(+) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/1c5a7c530e5f5f89 Add `Test2::Suite` as a dual-life CPAN module Paul "LeoNerd" Evans 247 files changed, 37846 insertions(+), 28 delet https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/6281b77d53e56b6b Add `Term-Table` as a dual-life CPAN module Paul "LeoNerd" Evans 18 files changed, 2487 insertions(+), 2 deletion https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/f754204f7b4e611f Finish preparing Module::Corelist for 5.39.4 Matthew Horsfall 4 files changed, 8 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/8c46034c67a31b74 Prepare Module::Corelist for 5.39.4 Matthew Horsfall 2 files changed, 24 insertions(+) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/d8c059d35cfafdc0 Bump the perl version in various places for 5.39.4 Matthew Horsfall 18 files changed, 123 insertions(+), 123 deletio https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/7a415acd38ab1222 New perldelta for 5.39.4 Matthew Horsfall 10 files changed, 566 insertions(+), 114 deletio https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/eb1b0be1a6fbdf4f Tick release 5.39.3 Matthew Horsfall 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/e6c5bfe2de8e8d56 App epigraph for 5.39.3 Matthew Horsfall 1 file changed, 29 insertions(+) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/e68f238efdcbf118 Add new release to perlhist Matthew Horsfall 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/c8a2e4d1432cd124 Finalize perldelta for v5.39.3 Matthew Horsfall 1 file changed, 59 insertions(+), 294 deletions( https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/8b8360cd219b241e Update Module::CoreList for 5.39.3 Matthew Horsfall 2 files changed, 50 insertions(+) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/42d2552d91d13707 Prepare Module::CoreList for v5.39.3 Matthew Horsfall 2 files changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/318d1a9963fb02a8 perldelta for 88a35d6636 Matthew Horsfall 1 file changed, 4 insertions(+) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/d3c00fa64e94872c perldelta for 92ddeac03b: builtin::unimport Paul "LeoNerd" Evans 1 file changed, 6 insertions(+) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/2de8fc5de09f0d12 New branch smoke-me/jkeenan/xs-typemap-build-time-warning-20230922 1 commit. 1 unique author. 1 unique committer. Snapshot: http://github.com/Perl/perl5/tarball/b2f52c58e4ea96b6 Avoid build-time warning James E Keenan 2 files changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/b2f52c58e4ea96b6 Martian commit 3bcdd4768f2017522b1cfec46fdc4dd91f4055c4 1 commit. 1 unique author. 1 unique committer. Snapshot: http://github.com/Perl/perl5/tarball/3bcdd4768f201752 Unit-test that `class NAME VERSION :ATTRS` syntax works Paul "LeoNerd" Evans 1 file changed, 9 insertions(+) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/3bcdd4768f201752 Martian commit 78eede5f50919327b4740506bb9b954ce9bd1948 1 commit. 1 unique author. 1 unique committer. Snapshot: http://github.com/Perl/perl5/tarball/78eede5f50919327 bump version.pm to 0.9930 Paul "LeoNerd" Evans 14 files changed, 682 insertions(+), 607 deletio https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/78eede5f50919327 Martian commit f6299c7dd157f2ce581b29d28681df7b9390d902 2 commits. 1 unique author. 1 unique committer. Snapshot: http://github.com/Perl/perl5/tarball/f6299c7dd157f2ce Implement `builtin` version bundles Paul "LeoNerd" Evans 4 files changed, 145 insertions(+), 27 deletions https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/f6299c7dd157f2ce builtin.c: Don't store the 'builtin::' name prefix in the table of functions Paul "LeoNerd" Evans 1 file changed, 29 insertions(+), 28 deletions(- https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/f5fbba29df2ca68c Martian commit 32d5d72a11e1d68c57163efb86eb2e26707943c8 1 commit. 1 unique author. 1 unique committer. Snapshot: http://github.com/Perl/perl5/tarball/32d5d72a11e1d68c perldelta for 6281b77: Add Term-Table and Test2-Suite Paul "LeoNerd" Evans 1 file changed, 15 insertions(+) https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/32d5d72a11e1d68c Martian commit 452e2af44a08b7fabe8bbd6e01a6aebe2b335ab1 2 commits. 1 unique author. 1 unique committer. Snapshot: http://github.com/Perl/perl5/tarball/452e2af44a08b7fa Add `Test2::Suite` as a dual-life CPAN module Paul "LeoNerd" Evans 247 files changed, 37846 insertions(+), 28 delet https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/452e2af44a08b7fa Add `Term-Table` as a dual-life CPAN module Paul "LeoNerd" Evans 18 files changed, 2487 insertions(+), 2 deletion https://github.com/Perl/perl5/commit/1c0796cebfddb1ea Ignored 48 GitHub auto-generated merge commits https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267085.html Sat, 23 Sep 2023 03:05:37 +0000 Re: TONYC Grant Report August 2023 by wolfsage On Thu, Sep 21, 2023 at 5:18â¯AM Tony Cook <tony@develop-help.com> wrote: > Which I calculate is 58.59 hours. > > Approximately 73 tickets were reviewed or worked on, and 13 patches > were applied. > Thanks Tony! +1 from me. -- Matthew Horsfall (alh) https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267084.html Fri, 22 Sep 2023 16:13:03 +0000 Re: refaliasing list assignment in list context by Dave Mitchell On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 10:49:40AM +0200, Ruud H.G. van Tol via perl5-porters wrote: > > On 2023-09-22 00:16, Dave Mitchell wrote: > > Notes that the nested list assigns are just one way of applying list > > context - there are others. And with some, you won't know what the context > > is until runtime. > > > > foo( \(@b) = .... ); # refalias list assign in lvalue list context > > > > > > sub bar { > > .....; > > \(@b) = ...; # last statement in sub - context supplied by caller > > } > > bar(); # ok? > > my $nelems = bar(); # ok? > > my @a = bar(); # runtime error??? > > > > We could make all these compile-time errors, but should we? > > I also prefer to make it a compile error. The "not until runtime" hit a > final nail. I'm not sure I follow you - that's the standard behaviour of the last statement in a function, where the context is determined by the caller. That is the behaviour of all last lines, not just ref aliasing. I included it as an example because it's easy to say "make it a compile- time error if it's in list context", but one needs to be careful to think through all the implications of such a stance, So it may well be that you and others are proposing the following: That assignments to refs (the 'refaliasing' experimental facility) such as \$x = \$y; \@a = \@b; (\$x, \@a) = (\$y, \@b); (\$x, \(@a)) = (\$y, \$p, \$q, \$r); should all become compile-time errors if they appear in anything other than compile-time void or scalar context? So these would all be compile-time errors: @m = (\$x = \$y); (\$x = \$y) = @m; foo(\$x = \$y); sub bar { ....; \$x = \$y; } Is that what you intend? > P.S. Shouldn't perltrap also mention the ones that still bite after many > years? What are you referring to here? The quirks of refaliasing? Or the fact that the context of the last statement in a sub is determined at runtime? Or what? -- This is a great day for France! -- Nixon at Charles De Gaulle's funeral https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2023/09/msg267083.html Fri, 22 Sep 2023 16:00:57 +0000