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Postings from January 2022
On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 1:54 AM demerphq <demerphq@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 at 14:27, Leon Timmermans <fawaka@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Jan 15, 2022 at 8:22 AM demerphq <demerphq@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> As far as I can tell, it's an accurate representation of how the sausage
>> is made. BEGIN blocks aren't implemented the way one would expect them to,
>> and these stacktraces represent that. They're not false, just very
>> unhelpful.
>>
>
> I really don't understand your position on this. We see output that says 4
> contradictory things, none of which are actually accurate. So which one of
> the four is true and which ones are false? I dont think the following
> statements can all be true simultaneously.
>
> main::BEGIN() called at A.pm line 2
> main::BEGIN() called at B.pm line 2
> main::BEGIN() called at C.pm line 2
> main::BEGIN() called at D.pm line 2
>
> But main::BEGIN is actually called at -e line 1. I mean, if the BEGIN
> statement were created in a module it would would A::BEGIN or B::BEGIN. For
> example:
>
> $ perl -MCarp=cluck -le'package Foo; BEGIN { Carp::cluck("in begin") }'
> in begin at -e line 1.
> Foo::BEGIN() called at -e line 1
> eval {...} called at -e line 1
>
> I really think this is an important point that keeps getting lost. Sure
> you can say "this is how the sausage is made", as this is the result of
> using a single global to track the origin of ALL synthesized BEGIN blocks
> which are part of a use statement. But that is circular logic. "it is
> correct and true because that is how it works" could be used to justify
> leaving unfixed ANY bug we encounter.
>
No, it is specific to this case because we are talking about a feature that
itself describes how Perl works. This logic would not be relevant for most
features.
> If the output did not say "called at A.pm line 2" but said "fake-frame
> injected by compiler" or something like that, I could buy the "this is how
> the sausage is made" argument. But it doesn't. It says something different
> each time. None of which seem to have any relationship to reality.
>
> It seems to me we should be able to agree on whether the output is true,
> and whether it is correct. I am really struggling to understand why this is
> controversial. It seems to me we should be able to agree that main::BEGIN
> *cannot* be called from anywhere but main, and this means that the output
> claiming that the block was called from a module file cannot be correct.
>
No one is claiming it is the most useful thing to display to the user. Just
that it represents what the Perl interpreter sees, at least to some extent.
The only thing controversial is various declarations of what is correct and
what must be done, where a reasoned discussion and assumption of good faith
would be much more effective at motivating resolution of your issue.
-Dan
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