develooper Front page | perl.perl5.porters | Postings from August 2021

Re: RFC? pre-RFC? Return of the Jedi^W err/dor

Thread Previous | Thread Next
From:
Oodler 577 via perl5-porters
Date:
August 11, 2021 15:01
Subject:
Re: RFC? pre-RFC? Return of the Jedi^W err/dor
Message ID:
20210811150002.GW28661@odin.sdf-eu.org
* H.Merijn Brand <perl5@tux.freedom.nl> [2021-08-11 15:20:21 +0200]:

> Is it an RFC if it is based on something that already existed?
> 
> Paul asked me on IRC and I realized times have changed. We have a
> renewed community with a new organization, and new ways forward.
> 
> We also have learned from the past and we are trying to keep up with
> the future(s).
> 
> So, with the last public mail on the subject being from Rik on this
> mailing list on 18 Feb 2013, I will just ask if there are votes in
> favor of bringing err/dor as low-precedence // back into the language
> 
>   !     not
>   ||	or
>   &&	and
>   //	dor (or err or whatever)
>   ^     xor
> 
> IIRC there were two issues that cause this new keyword not to land:
> 
>  1. No conclusive agreement on the name "dor" or "err"

Why do we make things difficult on ourselves and do silly things like
make the "defined or" look like, err-or? Is it an error?

> 
>  2. No agreement on the state (builtin keyword or weak keyword)

Maybe stay away from overloaded terms like "err" and you'll get some
more agreement. "dor" is fine with me. "err"? >_>...

And IIRC, "//" is not a logical operator; it's more like assignment shorthand. So
does it even need a lower precedent "word" to represent it? In what cases
might this be useful? Maybe we can consider the shorthand "ass" (for assignment)
in this case?

Cheers,
Brett
> 
> History:
> 
> ? "err" as low-precedence defined-or was introduced somewhere between
>   5.8 and 5.10, probably mid 2002. The first cleaned-up patch I found
>   was from 26-07-2002. The word "err" was chosen as it sounds like
>   "or". Not a good argument, but whatever. It was implemented as what
>   was called a weak keyword. The internals refer to OP_DOR (defined
>   or), so the rename to "dor" was suggested by Schwern on 05-09-2007.
>   By that time all in favor of the low-precedence "err" were already
>   used to the word "err" and really didn't care.
> 
> A lot of water has flowed since and neither "err" nor "dor" ever made
> it to a stable version of Perl as builtin keyword.
> 
> ? The most recent commit dealing with err/dor was from 11-12-2020!
>   where the last remnants of KEY_err where removed from the tokenizer
> 
> 
> I personally would *LOVE* to see it return to the language. I now know
> Paul Johnson would too.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.cpan.org/authors/id/H/HM/HMBRAND/ still holds
>   the patch files to include defined-or in perl-5.8.1 .. 5.8.9
> 
> -- 
> H.Merijn Brand  https://tux.nl   Perl Monger   http://amsterdam.pm.org/
> using perl5.00307 .. 5.33        porting perl5 on HP-UX, AIX, and Linux
> https://tux.nl/email.html http://qa.perl.org https://www.test-smoke.org
>                            



-- 
--
oodler@cpan.org
oodler577@sdf-eu.org
SDF-EU Public Access UNIX System - http://sdfeu.org
irc.perl.org #openmp #pdl #native

Thread Previous | Thread Next


nntp.perl.org: Perl Programming lists via nntp and http.
Comments to Ask Bjørn Hansen at ask@perl.org | Group listing | About