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Re: "use v5.36.0" should imply UTF-8 encoded source

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From:
Darren Duncan
Date:
July 31, 2021 19:17
Subject:
Re: "use v5.36.0" should imply UTF-8 encoded source
Message ID:
ea6db9d0-47fd-1c09-07d8-766216ac659e@darrenduncan.net
On 2021-07-31 1:16 a.m., Yuki Kimoto wrote:
> 2021-7-31 16:17 Darren Duncan:
> 
>     On 2021-07-30 11:15 p.m., Yuki Kimoto wrote:
>      > 2021-7-30 23:46 Ricardo Signes wrote:
>      >     I propose that "use v5.36.0" should imply that the source code is,
>      >     subsequently, UTF-8 encoded.
>      >
>      >   At least after v5.38+.
>      >
>      > It is good to change one by one.
>      >
>      > I want to see the effect and hear the user experience of "use warnings"
>     in the
>      > next release.
> 
>     I strongly disagree.  The warnings and utf8 are unrelated features.  These are
>     each also minor changes considering they are lexical.  Perl interpreter
>     development is already moving at a relatively glacial pace, there is no benefit
>     and a lot of downside of delaying the utf8 for a year just to see what people
>     say after a production with warnings is released.  The 5.36 is still about 9
>     months away, that is plenty of time for people to give feedback on either that
>     or the warnings.
> 
>   On this mailing list, Felipe has a strong interest in this topic and disagrees.
> 
> I personally think that the "use utf8;" and the internal representation of Perl 
> strings are independent things.
> 
> However, I feel that We need a little more time to think about it.
> 
> We need a conversation where Felipe isn't overwhelmed by the opinions of others.

I agree that the need that conversation.

However I also agree that there is plenty of time to properly have that 
discussion, such that we would know whether or not it is a good idea for "use 
vN;" to do something about UTF-8, so that if we agree it is a good idea, we can 
implement it for "v5.36", rather than putting it off to "v5.38".

What I object to is not properly starting the discussion until after Perl 5.36 
is released stable as you seemed to be saying.  If it was already early 2022 by 
the time the subject came up that's one thing, but its only July of 2021.

Now conversely, I don't have a problem with actually waiting until v5.38 to 
fully implement the change IF 5.36 contained some kind of precursor to prepare 
the way, such as that 5.36 would issue warnings for code with a "use 5.36" that 
wasn't valid UTF-8, saying that this code might parse differently under "use 
5.38".  That would let users know in a transitional version what might be a 
problem before it is.

But the key thing is we would have already had some kind of proper discussion on 
where we want to end up and its just a 2 phase rollout.  But I feel that waiting 
until a bundled use warnings is deployed before even asking about the utf8, that 
is wrong.

-- Darren Duncan

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