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Postings from June 2021
Re: Not an OO RFC, take 2
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‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Sunday, June 20th, 2021 at 2:11 PM, Ovid <publiustemp-p5p3@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, 20 June 2021, 19:30:08 CEST, mah.kitteh via perl5-porters <perl5-porters@perl.org> wrote:
>
> mah.kitteh wrote:
>
>> I am suggesting, "is there a way to implement 'class' that is a natural progression from package/bless/parent and a singular step forward?"
>
> I'm skipping all the rest because this one question distills everything.
>
> Do you know why high-risk Hail Mary passes are thrown in American football? Either you're near the end of the game and you have nothing to lose, or it's in a game with an opponent so dominating that you know you can't win otherwise.
Sportsball analogies are not lost on me, but usually said Hail Mary results in an incomplete pass or worse, an interception. Or *even* worse a "pick six" - where the opponent intercepts and scores to add insult to injury. But if you're interested in "miracle endings" you should check out the Auburn/Alabama game played on November 30, 2013. If you're a Bama fan, it didn't end so well. But the same can be said of "on side kicks". Unless you're the 2009 New Orleans Saints and decide to open the second half of the Super Bowl against a strongly favored Indianopolis Colts with such a kick. One was an improbably outcome at the end, one was simply "unexpected" and caught them offguard - and they never recovered.
In any case, i don't share the view we're at the "end game". It does seem like a time to act.
> We can go ahead and be timid. Or we can take a chance at doing something good. Perl's dying. I've tried to avoid saying that for years, but I can't do that any longer. Too many companies are asking us "how do we get rid of Perl?"
I get it. I like the zeal.
> We've been timid for a long, long time. Much of that is because we're afraid of saying it out loud. Much of that is because we don't have as many core developers involved. Much of that is because we don't want people attacking us for saying the emperor has no clothes. I'm done with that.
Good for you :) (I mean that sincerely, I am not being sarcastic).
> I have no interest in arguments from timidity. The emperor has no clothes.
>
> A while ago, I was offered a job as a senior Python dev. It was paying less than half of what I typically charge. I was offended. I was tempted. I said "no." Please don't tell me I made a mistake.
>
> Effective OOP isn't going to save Perl, any more than a single bullet in a gun will win a war. But it's a bullet we need.
I agree, and I am not arguing against this. But since we're speaking in more analogies I know a little about; I can say that both hesitation and rash action can lead to bad and unintended consequences.
So to be clear, I empathize deeply with you. But I do not share your anxiety. This is to say nothing about the actual topic of this thread. It'll all be okay. And like I said some regular Hail Marys or "Moon Shots" as Google/Alphabet I think calls them may be part of a good long term strategy.
What does that mean? You're testing the waters to send just a pre-RFC. It's like a pre-pre-RFC so it's hard to figure out where we are in the process. As Nike says, "just do it!" - I do thing that this would be a good time to call for "organized" feedback. Clearly certain topics can go off the rails quickly.
Cheers,
Brett
> Best,
> Ovid
> --
> IT consulting, training, specializing in Perl, databases, and agile development
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