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Postings from July 2020
On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 2:53 PM Paul "LeoNerd" Evans <leonerd@leonerd.org.uk> wrote: > On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 05:20:30 +1200 > Kent Fredric <kentfredric@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 at 05:03, Chris Prather <chris@prather.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > If the Perl community has taught me anything it's consensus > > > building takes *way* longer than 3-5 years. Moose is now 14 years > > > old and based on the conversations around Cor there is still not a > > > full consensus about the need for a core object system beyond > > > bless(), and we're just barely (say the last 3-5 years) into a > > > majority consensus that Moose is probably a reasonably good idea as > > > long as you remove about 50% of it, without a real agreement on > > > which 50% should be removed. > > > > > > -Chris > > > > And we don't really have any infrastructure that remotely helps > > establish if there *is* any consensus. It's probably mostly a feeling > > based on what you've seen in your direct peer group, interposed with > > how popular it seems to be on CPAN. Sometimes I agree with others > > feelings on matters. But as far as evidence goes, we'd be thrown out > > of the science party. > > Yeah. I agree it is difficult. > > I mostly form my ideas about what is missing from watching some of the > "pain points" in common themes of discussion in #perl on Freenode. Such > chat has lead me to feel that the main things missing are much as I > mentioned in my other message - repeated here in brief > > * try/catch > * proper exceptions to go along with theabove > * an object and class system > * a better thing than given/when/smartmatch > > Whereas very little noise seems to be made on the need to request > syntax features from time to time. People no more mind having to > > use feature 'say'; > > in order to get the say() function than they mind having to > > use List::Util 'max'; > > if they want the max() function. Everyone accepts - especially > programmers used to C, C++, C#, Java, ... that kind of thing - that if > you want to use functions and features in your code you often have to > request them. > > And sure while it would be nice to squash out some of the long > sprawling boilerplate of many pragmata modules, I don't see anyone > wanting to reduce that to nothing - a simple "use v7;" would be just > fine for folks there. I think if we just made "use v7;" a shortcut for > > use strict; > use warnings; > no feature 'indirect', 'bareword-filehandles', 'multidimensional'; > etc... > > That would sit just fine with justabout everyone. > > > At least, that's the prevailing feeling I've got from loitering in a > busy IRC chat room with around 600 active Perl users for the past > decade. Scientific? Probably not. But an interesting data point all the > same perhaps... > I concur with these observations, though largely from observing the same community spaces. -DanThread Previous | Thread Next