develooper Front page | perl.perl5.porters | Postings from July 2020

Re: Dual-life perl 5-or-7 code and prototypes - impossible?

Thread Previous | Thread Next
Paul "LeoNerd" Evans
July 2, 2020 18:53
Re: Dual-life perl 5-or-7 code and prototypes - impossible?
Message ID:
On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 05:20:30 +1200
Kent Fredric <> wrote:

> On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 at 05:03, Chris Prather <> wrote:
> >
> >
> > If the Perl community has taught me anything it's consensus
> > building takes *way* longer than 3-5 years. Moose is now 14 years
> > old and based on the conversations around Cor there is still not a
> > full consensus about the need for a core object system beyond
> > bless(), and we're just barely (say the last 3-5 years) into a
> > majority consensus that Moose is probably a reasonably good idea as
> > long as you remove about 50% of it, without a real agreement on
> > which 50% should be removed.
> >
> > -Chris  
> And we don't really have any infrastructure that remotely helps
> establish if there *is* any consensus. It's probably mostly a feeling
> based on what you've seen in your direct peer group, interposed with
> how popular it seems to be on CPAN. Sometimes I agree with others
> feelings on matters. But as far as evidence goes, we'd be thrown out
> of the science party.

Yeah. I agree it is difficult.

I mostly form my ideas about what is missing from watching some of the
"pain points" in common themes of discussion in #perl on Freenode. Such
chat has lead me to feel that the main things missing are much as I
mentioned in my other message - repeated here in brief

 * try/catch
 * proper exceptions to go along with theabove
 * an object and class system
 * a better thing than given/when/smartmatch

Whereas very little noise seems to be made on the need to request
syntax features from time to time. People no more mind having to

  use feature 'say';

in order to get the say() function than they mind having to

  use List::Util 'max';

if they want the max() function. Everyone accepts - especially
programmers used to C, C++, C#, Java, ... that kind of thing - that if
you want to use functions and features in your code you often have to
request them.

And sure while it would be nice to squash out some of the long
sprawling boilerplate of many pragmata modules, I don't see anyone
wanting to reduce that to nothing - a simple "use v7;" would be just
fine for folks there. I think if we just made "use v7;" a shortcut for

  use strict;
  use warnings;
  no feature 'indirect', 'bareword-filehandles', 'multidimensional';

That would sit just fine with justabout everyone.

At least, that's the prevailing feeling I've got from loitering in a
busy IRC chat room with around 600 active Perl users for the past
decade. Scientific? Probably not. But an interesting data point all the
same perhaps...

Paul "LeoNerd" Evans      |  |

Thread Previous | Thread Next Perl Programming lists via nntp and http.
Comments to Ask Bjørn Hansen at | Group listing | About