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Re: Moderation

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Sam Kington
February 13, 2018 16:43
Re: Moderation
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Piping up as a lurker with no dog in this fight.

On 11 Feb 2018, at 08:04, Sawyer X <> wrote:
> Far
> worse, some people are simply perfectly fine with abuse of others. For
> example, there are people who are completely fine with Marc's behavior
> and see no reason to not provide him with a stage. These people would
> not prevent abuse, they would normalize it - the opposite of the purpose
> of rules of conduct.

On 13 Feb 2018, at 13:48, Peter Rabbitson <> wrote:
> You equating the suffering of your ego with physical abuse, placing it anywhere near the same level as the bodily-assault and stalking epidemic gripping our industry and wider society... is sickening and demeaning to all survivors of such. I implore you to drop this shameful line of argumentation and never bring it up again.

This seems to be a rather uncharitable reading of what Sawyer was trying to say.

There is a tendency among programmers for technical expertise to go hand in hand with social rudeness. If everyone else is a fool, why should you suffer them gladly? Linus Torvalds is, by most accounts, one of these; and while his achievements in building Linux are astonishing, there have been a growing number of stories recently that his brash, bullying attitude is driving away some contributors, notably women.

There are three approaches you can take to people like this: you can (1) enable them, (2) ask them to avoid inflammatory language and be more constructive, or (3) ban them. Having chosen not to do #1, as I understand it, p5p has tried #2 and then, having failed, chosen #3.

As I see it, this discussion isn’t really about Marc Lehmann (or Reini Urban), or Sawyer X. It’s about what type of community p5p wants to have: a small elite community, or a larger, broader-based one (albeit with fewer peaks of brilliance).

For a mature language, that doesn’t seem inherently unreasonable to me.


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