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Re: Moderation

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Andreas Koenig
February 11, 2018 13:14
Re: Moderation
Message ID:
>>>>> On Fri, 9 Feb 2018 16:12:36 -0600, "Craig A. Berry" <> said:

  > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 12:18 AM, Andreas Koenig
  > <> wrote:

  > <big snip>
 >> 6. which moderators have access to the system that handles bans?
 >> 7. who has access to the logs of the system?
 >> 8. who has investigated, how the ban against Marc Lehmann was entered
 >> into the system? When and for how long was it entered by whom?
  > <big snip>

  > What "system"?  You talk as if there were some big infrastructure
  > built specifically to handle the moderation policy and implement bans.
  > I am not a moderator so I don't really know the details, but I
  > assume

Excuse me for interrupting you right here. Because both you and me have
no idea how it works, the question should be asked, which I did.
Assuming is not good enough. It's like with bugs in my code. You should
not trust code, you should make sure it is documented, reliable, and
does what it i supposed to do.

  > the pumpking has to bug the mailing list admins to do
  > something to implement the ban, and then has to remember to bug them
  > again when it's time to lift the ban, and these people have to set
  > aside what they are getting paid for and their more pleasant volunteer
  > activities to do this.  Verbally assaulting the person whose memory
  > one is depending on to get one's ban lifted may not be the best way to
  > ensure that it happens on time. And of course nothing prevents the
  > banned person from writing a polite reminder to the moderators when
  > the ban is supposed to be up; if it included an apology for past
  > behavior and an expression of intent to play by the rules going
  > forward, there's no telling how much good will might erupt.

Full disclosure: the polite way has been attempted in private. I have
offered Sawyer that we can publish our discourse and I repeat this offer
again. I did not receive answers after 10 days of attempting to in
private. I realize I should have disclosed this effort in my previous
posting. I'm sorry I missed that opportunity.

 >> I hear the questions and I have to spell them out
 >> because apparently nobody else does, while still they actually are
 >> awaiting to be dealt with.

  > Bans are publicly announced on list.

Why are you so sure that they are? I have asked for a list of links to
the postings that publicly announced bans and I did not get it.

  > The moderation policy is publicly documented.

And rules are changed ex cathedra.

  > The names of the moderators are publicly documented.

And changed ex cathedra es well.

  > The rationale for recent changes was publicly documented in the
  > commit message. Does it really matter whether the moderators voted
  > on the changes or just kept revising it until it was unanimous? It
  > seems so obviously sensible to me that I'd assume it was the latter,
  > but I can't imagine why I would care.

Because you don't care. Fine by me, but I do care. I think you should
care too. Everybody should care. This is or at least was our community
we founded 24 years ago with much enthusiasm.

  > I just don't see there is anything that needs to be "dealt with" and
  > most of these questions sound, as Yves said, accusatory.

I apologize for sounding accusatory without giving enough context. I
should have made clear that there was a private prelude. Otherwise I
would not have come to 18 questions.


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