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Re: The future of POSIX in core

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Nicholas Clark
September 2, 2011 05:14
Re: The future of POSIX in core
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On Fri, Sep 02, 2011 at 01:56:59PM +0200, Mark Overmeer wrote:
> * Nicholas Clark ( [110902 11:01]:
> > On Fri, Sep 02, 2011 at 10:53:56AM +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote:
> > And anyone using them directly, in either way below
> > $ perl -le 'use POSIX "chdir"; sub my_chdir { POSIX::chdir @_ }'
> > $ perl -le 'use POSIX (); sub my_chdir { POSIX::chdir @_ }'
> > 
> > would have their code break on them at runtime without the wrapper
> > implementation.
> At least it is easy to find-out if any module on CPAN has implemented
> this kind of wrappers for functions which are exported both by CORE
> as by POSIX.
> >> >   7. remove stuff which no-one in its right mind should use: isalnum,
> >> >      wide character functions.
> >> 
> >> But people do do this. Moreover, sensible people inherit crazy
> >> spaghetti balls of code that keep working, where there is no time
> >> (or business reason) to change the code. This sort of change would
> >> punish people.
> Duh!  Again a remark which expresses "I am a core developer, so I know
> how real-life works. You're mot so you must be stupid. Let me tell you
> how it works".  Please stop doing that! (also to other people than me)

I'm telling you how core developer life works, and what my personal
experience of work codebases is. Please stop assuming otherwise.

I did not say that you were stupid. You are not stupid. I did say
that one subsection of one of your proposals was stupid. And then
afterwards realised that my reasoning (and testing of it) was wrong.

I did not assume that I know better than you on how *your* modules work. I
did say that this is what happens over the course of years if one puts out
core perl releases that people upgrade to, and their code breaks.

Making a core perl release is not the same as releasing a module.
You've never made a core release. I have. You can't tell me what it's like,
what the concerns are, what you think as you hit the final upload to
PAUSE and there's no going back. I can. 

I would not want to put my name on a perl release, that if someone upgrades
to it, will break code in ways that could reasonably be avoided.

If you don't like that, that's fine. But that's how it is.

If you continue to ignore how the core developers feel about their codebase,
that's fine. But you're not going to win the arguments you want to win, if
you ignore the view of the people you're trying to persuade. I'm not in a
minority of one here.

Nicholas Clark

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