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Re: Save a few hunderd kilobytes or a few hundred perl users?

From:
Mark Murray
Date:
April 30, 2002 14:33
Subject:
Re: Save a few hunderd kilobytes or a few hundred perl users?
Message ID:
200204301803.g3UI30oI031200@grimreaper.grondar.org
> Mark, and FreeBSD committers,
> 
>    I am deeply disappointed by the recent move to drop some of the files 
> (CGI.pm, et al.) in perl distribution /usr/src/contrib/perl5.  By saving 
> a few hundred kilobytes, you are risking losing a few hundred perl 
> hackers that run FreeBSD thereon.

OK...

> I hate to tell you this but I believe FreeBSD has already paid the price 
> for disregarding the community.  Are you--we (because I am part of the 
> FreeBSD community, at least for the time being) going to repeat the same 
> mistake?

Well, look at it this way. Perl is very hard to build already, and it
is very big, and you say it is getting bigger. All "base" freebsd needs
is the core language. The rest bloats the source tree, slows down builds
of the whole operating system and provides copious opportunities for
cross-builds and upgrades to fail.

Can we not come to a compromise here?

> Rafael Garcia-Suarez also wrote:
> > Wait, vendors will soon have to struggle with the Borgified 5.8.0 
> > release...
> 
> Now please allow me to get a little personal.  I happened to maintain 
> Encode, the largest module in Perl 5.8.0 by far.  If you are to 
> castrate, this will definitely the first one to be.  The sad fact is 
> that I develop this very module on FreeBSD!

And it sounds like a perfect candidate for a FreeBSD "port". The
bash(1) developer develops on FreeBSD (IIRC). That is a port. I have
no idea how many other of our 6000+ ports are developed on FreeBSD,
we dont have those in the base system unless they are needed for
the core operating system (such needs are things like, say,
OpenSSH, Kerberos5/Heimdal, Bind, Less, etc in src/contrib/).

> Since Encode is a part of Perl 5.8.0, I can't choose to license it so 
> that you can't castrate.  But that will disappoint me so much that I may 
> join those who kissed FreeBSD good-bye like many others who have chosen 
> to do so for the lack of regards.

You realise that you are asking for FreeBSD to bloat itself to
unusable levels by setting this precedent? How many _other_
modules are coming in? How big is Perl going to get? How much
longer is it going to take to build? What other software authors
will thus have valid reasons for having _their_ software as part
of the base system instead of as a port?

> P.S.  I would rather choose the NetBSD way of detaching Perl from core 
> distribution altogether.  That is far more politically correct.

There is merit to this point - make Perl5 a "super-port" (or
something), that is closer to the OS than a usual port but not part
of the base OS. I have no objection to this.

M
-- 
o       Mark Murray
\_
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