*Sigh* Dan, I'm not entirely happy that you chose to take this discussion so public, with such a wide CC list. My experience is that these matters are much better solved in smaller groups, where the signal/noise ratio doesn't go straight to /dev/null. [FWIW, I'm the release manager of the Perl 5.8.0-to-be] -- $jhi++; # http://www.iki.fi/jhi/ # There is this special biologist word we use for 'stable'. # It is 'dead'. -- Jack Cohen