develooper Front page | perl.perl5.porters | Postings from September 2000

apology. kind of.

Thread Next
Jarkko Hietaniemi
September 15, 2000 09:41
apology. kind of.
Message ID:
If you want a public apology about calling you a vague whiner, here it is.
I apologize.

Maybe you missed the smiley.

But: I suggest you go back and read your original message "unicode
support and perl " more carefully.  My opinion still is that you
say too much "X is broken, X is simply wrong", without giving
concrete proposals to fix the situation.  Concrete in my books
means: design specs, implementation details, code.  Code speaks
so much louder than words.

I quote: "Therefore the [INTERNAL] remarks in the Encode docs that
were posted recently are simply wrong: This must not be "internal", as
there is a large difference between a unicode string that perls treats
as unicode and a unicode string that pelr treats as bytes that happen
to be valid utf-8."  Well, what is your *concrete* suggestion?  A
document patch would be concrete.  Your comments amounts to "you guys
suck".  If the current Unicode implementation using UTF-8 as internal
representation is bad, *please* give us better suggestions.  If you
read the discussion leading into and during the Encode public design,
you could see opinions both for and against exposing this UTF-8 detail.
Some people want to hide it because it may chance in the future, some
people want the current guts exposed because that's what they need now.

"perl is 100% unusable as soon as it comes to using utf8. I conjecture
that nobody has seriously done anything with perl and utf8, given the
amount of functionality that breaks when you do so."  So, what kind
of things you are trying to do and how do they break?  Again, your
message can be condensed to "you guys suck".

"So first priority should be to get it working in practise, before
creating fancy modules to convert between usable and unusable
representations."  Yes, I guess I was also personally offended by you
calling the design specs I made "creating fancy modules", so my flip
reply to you might have been because of that.  I think not being able
to import/export legacy data is a serious hindrance before we can even
begin to think using Unicode.  We don't *need* any of these internal
Unicode support things: we can do all using vec() and bit arithmetics if
need be, or use external modules (Gisle's Unicode modules work
fine without any internal Unicode support).

"and even writing patches didn't have the effect of getting this fixed."
Quoting bug ids that are still not fixed would be another
concrete way to help us get better.

Note: I'm actually supposed to be packing and my flight is leaving
soon so please don't interpret my silence in any other way than as
my absence.

$jhi++; #
        # There is this special biologist word we use for 'stable'.
        # It is 'dead'. -- Jack Cohen

Thread Next Perl Programming lists via nntp and http.
Comments to Ask Bjørn Hansen at | Group listing | About