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RE: More patching! Less whining!

David Grove
April 1, 2000 13:28
RE: More patching! Less whining!
Message ID:
> >You seem to have a utopian system.
> Yes, it's called Unix.  Things work.  Fancy that.  Bet you
> wish you could say as much.

I use Linux. In fact, I've _finally_ successfully gotten Linux into my
workplace as the primary server tool, and have discussed notions with my
employer on deploying linux on workstations. Perl has replaced VB for
internal applications, tools, cgi, and processors. It is my favorite and
most useful operating system. Of course, you probably don't like linux and
think everyone should be working on a mirror image of your system with a
mirror image of your OS. Oh, I am porting CodeMagic to Linux as well.

I also use BeOS. I have to respect any OS that boots in 7 seconds. Can't do
much with it (yet), but it's interesting to play with. I'm dying to port
CodeMagic to it.

I also use FreeBSD. Don't much care for it, but that's just my opinion. I'm
still porting CodeMagic to it.

I also use Mac. Also not my choice: again, my opinion. I'm free to use it or
not use it. CodeMagic is going here as well.

I also use Win32. I don't like it, and don't really have to enumerate to
this forum my reasons for not liking it, since we all know. I use it because
it's what people use. I use it because people need software for it. I use it
for work, because it's my job, and I use it to promote the Perl language by
helping bring Perl software to its users. If it weren't for work, I probably
wouldn't use it. But that doesn't mean that I would ignore its users, or
refuse to demand of my software that it also support Win32, or Mac, or
anything other community that I could within my power benefit.

I'm not conceited enough to blow off an entire perl subcommunity because I
don't like their operating system. I'm not intolerant enough to wish death
upon Win32 users simply because, as you say, "all Win32 users are idiots".
I'm not willing to make myself deaf to the needs of innumerable members of
this perl community simply because of personal bigotry and arrogance. It is
not within my mindset that all users of any OS other than my own can go to
hell. The perl community, as of 5.005, includes Win32, officially. It also
includes Linux, and Solaris, and BSD, and Mac, and BeOS. None of these are
any more or any less important than any other. Perl is OnePerl. Perl
encompasses an entire planet's worth of operating systems and users, all of
which share an equal need and are due equal respect from you and from this
forum, despite your personal bigotry.

To be clear, I respect your work on Perl. I respect your writing and the
positive things that you have done for the perl community. However, no
respect is due to the blatant arrogance and adamant bigotry that you
represent. It is harmful to the perl community to have one of its icons
completely ignore, if not wantonly work against, any subcommunity among us.

Times are changing. Get over it, and move on.


> >Point taken. Normally this is a given. This is unfortunately not true on
> >Win32,
> You have chosen your own Hell to wallow in.  Now stop complaining
> about that choice.

My only choice in this matter is to support and defend a community worthy of

I defend the Win32 perl subcommunity, because its defenders are rare, and
it's attackers are many, and exist even within the subcommunity itself. I
defend them because they are a people worth defending, due respect, due
equality of voice and a fair, fighting chance.

The only Hell here is that people like you try to withhold perl from the
community, and openly bash anything and everything represented by it; and
the members of this subcommunity whose motives are the outright
monopolization of Perl on the Win32 operating system by any means possible.

Times are changing. Get over it, and move on.


> >For ages Win32 folks have been screaming for a Win32 IDE/Editor
> for Perl.
> That's because idiots who wouldn't know a great tool if it smashed them
> in their faces are screawing for something they don't need is no escuse
> to pay attention to them.

Should we ignore and actively fight against a part of our community that is
in its infancy, or should we nurture it as a piece of our future?

Tell me. How is it helpful to the perl community to blast any Win32 perl
user simply because you don't like their operating system? How is it helpful
to stagnate into a "Perl is NOT CGI" mode, off in a corner not only hiding
from advocacy but also providing couteradvocacy to prevent the _welcome_
influx of millions of potential users? How is it helpful to close off and
close out one of the most important targets of advocacy and growth available
to the entire perl community just because you don't like new users and the
operating systems they work on? How is it helpful for a group such as this
to hand over "control" of the growth of this subcommunity to a many-times
failed corporation bent on monopolizing that subcommunity, by false
marketing, by corrupting the perl core, by hiding from its accusers and
failing to answer for their own unscrupulous misdeeds?

Times are changing. Get over it, and move on.


> >My greatest hope for it is that it be a catalyst for more
> >corporate entities to embrace Perl because of it, because, if
> for no other
> >reason, it has buttons. ;-))
> >It's my baby and my contribution. It represents thousands of
> hours of work
> >and contribution, despite Tom's rant contrawise. Forgive a bit of earnest
> >partiality.
> Waste your life doing something pointless and then blaming others
> for it, eh?>

If working my butt off for the benefit of the Win32 Perl subcommunity is
wasting my life, and providing them with my best work and effort is
pointless, then I say, "Let nothing in my life be more meaningless than

Times are changing. Get over it, and move on.


> >I, for one, _AM_ contributing my butt off, not just in time and sweat and
> >sore fingers but financially as well. My conscience is clear.
> Could have fooled me:
>     % grep -ic 'david grove' /usr/local/src/perl/Changes
>     0

I think that I have a pretty clear picture now. Of course, I already knew
about it... I just hadn't seen it from you before.

It seems my opinion that contributions come in many forms is wrong according
to TCHRIST. Contributions are only valid from Unix users actively working on
the Unix Perl Core. Application builders, modules builders, advocates,
writers, publishers, and the whols host of other would-be contributers are
actually useless and just blowing smoke. The opinions of perl users and
subcommunities is irrelevant and unimportant. In fact, anyone not using
TCHRIST's own version of TCHRIST's own OS on TCHRIST's own machine doing
TCHRIST's work is useless to the perl community.


How many mirrors do you have in your house?

Times are changing. Get over it, and move on. If you can't, then kindly step
back into your own little world and play with your own little utopian system
and the bugfixes for it and let people who actually do care about the
community as a whole with _all_ of its parts and _all_ of its members
participate in the advancement of the entire community in the many ways that
they do. As for your advancement of the perl core, fine. Thank you for your
help. It is acknowledged and appreciated. Your attitude, actions, and
statements against the Win32 subcommunity, however, are not. Perl Programming lists via nntp and http.
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