perl.jobs.discuss

perl.jobs.discuss http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/ ... Copyright 1998-2013 perl.org Sun, 19 May 2013 07:58:42 +0000 ask@perl.org Re: Job postings back to 2008 levels by brian d foy [[ This message was both posted and mailed: see the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]] In article <4EE1F3F4-5430-4290-9888-76A9DCA63757@perl.org>, Ask Bjørn Hansen <ask@perl.org> wrote: > In March the jobs site had more postings than any month since June 2008. How did you count? If I look at perl.jobs and work through all the messages from jobs-admin@perl.org counting unique IDs in the URL to the job posting, 2012 looks worse than 2011 (83 to 96 in March). This is still true if I count messages from jobs-admin@perl.org without caring about the URLs (114 to 120 in March). Counting either of these ways, 2012 has so far lagged behind 2011 in all months, and 13 months since January 2009 have had higher numbers than March 2012. http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2012/04/msg1738.html Thu, 05 Apr 2012 00:50:47 +0000 Re: Job postings back to 2008 levels by Uri Guttman On 04/04/2012 11:27 AM, David Kaufman wrote: > Hi Andy, > > On 4/3/2012 8:08 AM, Andy Lester wrote: >> * Do you have a feel for the types of things that they're looking for? >> For example, "Back in 2008, it seemed like everyone wanted X, but now >> they want Y" >> >> * Besides the numbers of jobs posted, what has the trend in number of >> visitors to the site been? >> >> Thanks, >> xoxo, >> Andy >> >> -- >> Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com <mailto:andy@petdance.com> => >> www.petdance.com <http://www.petdance.com> => AIM:petdance > > I'd also be interested to see if the numbers showed whether it's just my > (mis)perception, or if there really are a heck of a lot more > telecommuting positions being offered. there are more telecommute jobs than before due to the higher demand. some companies are widening their net to find better perl hackers. but i have seen cases where they hire a remote worker and pressure them to move. one candidate of mine quit over that. also some places say they want remote workers but renege or have much higher priority on local workers (even one shop which allows local workers to work from home 2-3 days a week!). finally, some places will start to allow remote coders but don't have the experience in doing so and it requires a different management mindset and such to do it well. so joining such a firm may be a bad idea until they learn how to handle remote coders well. one other major contributor to the demand for remote workers is the real estate market and related factors. developers are not wanting to move for work due to underwater mortgages, life/family issues, relocation costs (some shops have boosted relocation benefits for this reason), etc. so be warned and be prepared if you are entering the telecommute market. i plan to write a longer essay on this in the near future. uri http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2012/04/msg1737.html Wed, 04 Apr 2012 08:50:05 +0000 Re: Job postings back to 2008 levels by David Kaufman Hi Andy, On 4/3/2012 8:08 AM, Andy Lester wrote: > * Do you have a feel for the types of things that they're looking for? > For example, "Back in 2008, it seemed like everyone wanted X, but now > they want Y" > > * Besides the numbers of jobs posted, what has the trend in number of > visitors to the site been? > > Thanks, > xoxo, > Andy > > -- > Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com <mailto:andy@petdance.com> => > www.petdance.com <http://www.petdance.com> => AIM:petdance I'd also be interested to see if the numbers showed whether it's just my (mis)perception, or if there really are a heck of a lot more telecommuting positions being offered. -dave http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2012/04/msg1736.html Wed, 04 Apr 2012 08:27:56 +0000 Re: Job postings back to 2008 levels by Andy Lester On Apr 3, 2012, at 12:20 AM, Ask Bjørn Hansen wrote: > In March the jobs site had more postings than any month since June 2008. Or how about this: I put on my Perlbuzz reporter hat and get information that I can write up. * How many postings did we have for March? Do you have history? Is it cyclical over time? How bad has it been in the past? * Can you attribute this number of postings to anything? * Do you have a feel for the types of things that they're looking for? For example, "Back in 2008, it seemed like everyone wanted X, but now they want Y" * Besides the numbers of jobs posted, what has the trend in number of visitors to the site been? Thanks, xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2012/04/msg1735.html Tue, 03 Apr 2012 05:08:49 +0000 Re: Job postings back to 2008 levels by Andy Lester On Apr 3, 2012, at 12:20 AM, Ask Bjørn Hansen wrote: > In March the jobs site had more postings than any month since June 2008. Can you please tweet or blog that so I can point to it from Perlbuzz etc? xoa -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2012/04/msg1734.html Mon, 02 Apr 2012 22:22:06 +0000 Job postings back to 2008 levels by Ask Bjørn Hansen In March the jobs site had more postings than any month since June 2008. Ask http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2012/04/msg1733.html Mon, 02 Apr 2012 22:20:34 +0000 Re: [Perl Jobs] Junior Perl Developer (onsite), New York, NY, USA by Chisel Hi Rudolf, I'm an employee at NET-A-PORTER. I've been asked to forward the response from our head of recruitment, which I've pasted in full below. I'll also post this to the london.pm thread that was started earlier today. Regards, Chisel ---- cut here ---- /Hi Rudolf, / /Iâm James and I head up the recruitment team for the NET-A-PORTER Group of businesses; Iâd like to start by apologizing for this situation. I truly understand how frustrating and isolating the interview process can be: we try to stay in close contact with all candidates interviewing for roles within our organization, wherever possible we try to avoid using third party recruiters, as so often our message becomes occluded and things inevitably get âlost in translationâ. I am very disappointed that much of what the recruiter has told you is incorrect; I would welcome the opportunity to speak with you directly to try to resolve this situation//. I will also be speaking to the Recruitment Agency separately about this./// /For everyone else that has contributed to the discussion please understand that whilst we do partner with third party recruiters from time to time we have little or no control over what individual agents might purportedly say on our behalf, which is why we always encourage you to speak to members of our team directly â many of our developers are active within the community. We are deeply committed to the on-going development of Perl; both internally and within the wider community//. You can find out more, or reach our recruitment team directly, via//_www.net-a-porter.com/careers_/<http://www.net-a-porter.com/careers>// Many thanks, James /James Hudson/ */Global Recruitment Manager/*// *//* /NET-A-PORTER LTD/ /1 The Village Offices/// /Westfield London Shopping Centre/// /Ariel Way/// /London/// /W12 7GF/// /(T) +44 0203 471 4589/// /(M) +44 7884 250 784/ ---- cut here ---- -- Chisel Wright Perl Architect Software Architecture Team NET-A-PORTER 1 The Village Offices Westfield London Shopping Centre Ariel Way London W12 7GF Office: 020 3471 4500 Direct: 020 3471 4804 / ext 4804 Web: www.net-a-porter.com NET-A-PORTER.COM Irresistible fashion at your fingertips CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information in this email is confidential and is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not read, use or disseminate the information. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Net A Porter Group Limited. The Net A Porter Group Limited is a company registered in England & Wales Number: 3820604 Registered Office: 1 The Village Offices, Westfield, Ariel Way, London, W12 7GF http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2011/12/msg1732.html Tue, 13 Dec 2011 10:48:30 +0000 Fwd: [Perl Jobs] Junior Perl Developer (onsite), New York, NY, USA by Rudolf Lippan Hello, You might want to review this posting. Over the past six weeks, I've been going through the interview/hiring process with NET-A-PORTER. An offer was extended, pending final signature, last week to lead their US development team, but they pulled out after attempting to renegotiate an agreed upon salary. NET-A-PORTER informed the recruiting company that they were pulling out of the US market for at least a year on Tuesday (6 Dec.) I emailed both companies yesterday (7 Dec.) regarding my understanding of the situation, and I just got off the phone with the recruiting company and they informed me that the same thing happened to the two other Perl programmers assembled for the team. NET-A-PORTER has not yet responded; and, based on the conversation I just had, I don't expect it. If anyone has any questions, the recruiting company offered to discuss any direct inquiries regarding this situation. I will be writing up a more detailed outline about my experience with NET-A-PORTER and post that to the london.pm list, but figured this should be looked into before anyone else gets suckered. -r On Wednesday, December 07, 2011 at 01:37:55 PM, Perl Jobs wrote: > Online URL for this job: http://jobs.perl.org/job/14442 > > To subscribe to this list, send mail to jobs-subscribe@perl.org. > To unsubscribe, send mail to jobs-unsubscribe@perl.org. > > Posted: December 7, 2011 > > Job title: Junior Perl Developer > > Company name: NET-A-PORTER > > Internal ID: Junior Perl Developer - New Jersey > > Location: New York, NY, USA > > Pay rate: Competitve with excellent benefits > > Terms of employment: Salaried employee > > Hours: Full time > > Onsite: yes > > Description: > Junior Perl Developer > > What we have to offer is unique; you will be joining a truly Agile team > embedded within the business; this is an opportunity to establish a close > relationship with our product owners and users and make a real difference > in a fast-paced pure-play retail environment. > > Our leading edge infrastructure allows us to deliver value to our business > every iteration, which means you will immediately be able to contribute and > make an positive impact to our business. > > Our success means we are looking for the best software developers to take > our platform and product forward. In return you will be exposed to the > latest technologies, frameworks & methodologies in application development. > > > NET-A-PORTER.COM launched in June 2000 and has since successfully > established itself as the worldâs premier luxury online fashion retailer. > With its acclaimed editorial format, express worldwide shipping to 170 > countries, luxurious packaging and easy returns, NET-A-PORTER offers an > unparalleled shopping experience. NET-A-PORTER.COM is the flagship brand > from the NET-A-PORTER group which comprises theOutnet.com, the most > fashionable fashion outlet, and MRPORTER.COM, the global men's style > destination. > > "Net-a-porter has revolutionized the way we buy designer clothes." Vogue UK > > ________________________________________ > > The Role: > â¢ Develop to a high standard, ensuring work is well-planned, > estimated, tested, and documented > â¢ Work closely with other team members and the Business Analysis, > Project > Management, QA and Technical Operations teams > â¢ Develop a good understanding of business requirements > â¢ Write technical specs > â¢ Work within an agile team to plan improvements to systems > â¢ Review other team memberâs work > > Required skills: > Essential Skills: > â¢ Able to produce high-quality web applications > â¢ Able to develop web-based user interfaces (HTML, CSS) & APIs (JSON > & XML) > â¢ Knowledge of a modern scripting language and framework, such as > Perl, PHP, Python or Ruby > o We use Perl but youâll be given time to learn (itâs easy) > â¢ Experience building and testing high-availability applications > â¢ A good understanding of: > o Linux conventions > o Testing frameworks > o Refactoring > o SQL (ideally Postgres / MySQL) > o Version Control Systems (SVN, SVK, P4, VSS, Git etc) > o Apache/FCGI & mod_perl > â¢ Believes in common code ownership > â¢ Exposure to: > o AJAX & Javascript, & JS frameworks (jQuery, YUI) > o Agile development methodologies > o Message queues (ideally ActiveMQ) > > We are looking for candidates that: > â¢ Are passionate about software development > â¢ Are good communicators with good writing skills > â¢ Have a healthy dose of common sense and initiative > â¢ Have a great sense of humor and attitude > > Location: > Mahwah, NJ > > To Apply: > Please follow this link http://tinyurl.com/4ywcew4 > > NO RECRUITMENT AGENCIES PLEASE > > Website for more information: > http://www.net-a-porter.com/?cm_mmc=MSNUK-_-Branded-_-Net-A-Porter-_-Net-A- > Porter&bbcid=2625 > > Contact information at: > http://jobs.perl.org/job/14442#contact > > > http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2011/12/msg1731.html Thu, 08 Dec 2011 12:01:15 +0000 City searches on jobs.perl.org by Ask Bjørn Hansen Hi everyone, Since earlier today you can now do a proper geospatial search for jobs: http://jobs.perl.org/search?location=los+angeles Not all of the current postings on the site have been geo coded, but they should expire over the next couple of weeks anyway. :-) All new postings are required to be geocoded if they have a location. (If you are an employer posting, just editing the job will get your listing geocoded, too). - ask http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2011/09/msg1730.html Wed, 14 Sep 2011 17:14:34 +0000 Google +1 buttons by Ask Bjørn Hansen There have been a gazillion[1] small behind the scenes updates to the jobs site in the last year. I made a small one just now that's more user visible, adding a Google +1 button. Not sure what if any use it'll be, but if you start clicking on them we'll find out. :-) http://jobs.perl.org/ - ask [1] Ok, 150 or so. http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2011/08/msg1729.html Mon, 22 Aug 2011 06:49:36 +0000 post approval delays by Uri Guttman hi, i have 2 new job posts dating june 3 and it is now june 7 and they still haven't been approved. is there any way we can make the approval process work more effectively? is there a need for more people who can approve posts? i used to have that role many years ago (if you don't recall, i started the original jobs list and was a moderator for years). i am not in any current capacity with the current setup due to what some would perceive as a conflict with my perl hunter agency so i can't help out myself. any thoughts? uri -- Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com -- ----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------ --------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com --------- http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2011/06/msg1728.html Tue, 07 Jun 2011 10:50:00 +0000 phising anyone? by Uri Guttman hi, i was connecting with a new candidate when he told me he checked me out to see if perlhunter.com was legit. it more suprised me than anything else. he checked out my site, googled me a bit, etc. even after we talked he emailed to my cpan address to verify i was that cpan ID. he said he had been phished by some on the jobs list who were just collecting resumes. has anyone else seen this on the list? that would be some agency types who ask you for your resume under false pretenses. how can you tell it happened vs a negative result (no reply)? thanx, uri -- Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com -- ----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------ --------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com --------- http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2011/06/msg1727.html Sat, 04 Jun 2011 22:52:54 +0000 Re: Are foreign perl programmers needed in US? by Ask Bjørn Hansen On Dec 30, 2010, at 1:10, Lev Leontiev wrote: > Is it possible to get a job and sponsorship remotely or I have to come > to US first? Most of the time jobs are found via personal connections and recommendations. I think this would be particularly true if you are looking for someone to invest the time, risk and money on going through the visa process with you or hiring you to work remotely many timezones away. So: Step one is to build a reputation for being nice, productive and fun to work with. This could be tele-commute work (full time or contract work) or participation in open source projects related to things you'd like to do as paid work. - ask http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2010/12/msg1726.html Fri, 31 Dec 2010 02:54:16 +0000 Re: Are foreign perl programmers needed in US? by Gabor Szabo Hi Lev, On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Lev Leontiev <maravan@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi everybody. > > I have an idea to move to US from Russia > > Can you please tell me,  if is it possible now to get a job and h1b > sponsorship being a   perl developer with 5 year experience? > > Is it possible to get a job and sponsorship remotely or I have to come > to US first? > > Some of my US friends say that there is a recession and unemployment > in industry, others say that industry is rising again. > I am not in the US but I am subscribed to some of the local Perl Monger groups there. Recent discussions on some of the lists indicate that at least in some areas of the USA the hi-tech job market is expanding and companies find it hard to find good developers. Not only in Perl but in Perl as well. This of course does not mean any of these companies would be ready to go for the trouble hiring from overseas or training their own people or even raising the offered salaries. I guess there are relatively few companies that would sponsor your visa. We also know that there are companies in the EU that are looking for good Perl developers. I don't know what about visa and work permit issues there but I know for example that both Booking.com in Amsterdam and 123People in Vienna are looking for developers. regards Gabor http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2010/12/msg1725.html Fri, 31 Dec 2010 02:29:34 +0000 Re: Are foreign perl programmers needed in US? by Uri Guttman >>>>> "LL" == Lev Leontiev <maravan@gmail.com> writes: LL> I know the mechanics, my question is: do such companies exist? of course they exist, that is why h1b visas exist. the problem is finding a company with job openings that can sponsor an h1b. and the bigger problem is the annual quota limits on h1b, when they get issued and how fast they run out. uri -- Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com -- ----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------ --------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com --------- http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2010/12/msg1724.html Thu, 30 Dec 2010 03:11:04 +0000 Re: Are foreign perl programmers needed in US? by Lev Leontiev Thank you, Uri I know the mechanics, my question is: do such companies exist? On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 12:31 PM, Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com> wrote: >>>>>> "LL" == Lev Leontiev <maravan@gmail.com> writes: > >  LL> I have an idea to move to US from Russia > >  LL> Can you please tell me, if is it possible now to get a job and h1b >  LL> sponsorship being a perl developer with 5 year experience? > >  LL> Is it possible to get a job and sponsorship remotely or I have to come >  LL> to US first? > > h1b visas come from companies that are hiring. so it all depends on the > company if it wants to sponsor h1b's. also there is a limited number of > them and they go quickly. there may not be any new h1b's issued until > next year. > >  LL> Some of my US friends say that there is a recession and unemployment >  LL> in industry, others say that industry is rising again. > > there is a steady demand for quality perl programmers. the main reason > is that most good perl coders are working so there is a somewhat low > supply. but again, the issue you have is finding a company to sponsor > you and they need to get an h1b for this to happen. > > uri > > -- > Uri Guttman  ------  uri@stemsystems.com  --------  http://www.sysarch.com -- > -----  Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------ > ---------  Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix  ----  http://bestfriendscocoa.com --------- > http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2010/12/msg1723.html Thu, 30 Dec 2010 02:38:08 +0000 Re: Are foreign perl programmers needed in US? by Uri Guttman >>>>> "LL" == Lev Leontiev <maravan@gmail.com> writes: LL> I have an idea to move to US from Russia LL> Can you please tell me, if is it possible now to get a job and h1b LL> sponsorship being a perl developer with 5 year experience? LL> Is it possible to get a job and sponsorship remotely or I have to come LL> to US first? h1b visas come from companies that are hiring. so it all depends on the company if it wants to sponsor h1b's. also there is a limited number of them and they go quickly. there may not be any new h1b's issued until next year. LL> Some of my US friends say that there is a recession and unemployment LL> in industry, others say that industry is rising again. there is a steady demand for quality perl programmers. the main reason is that most good perl coders are working so there is a somewhat low supply. but again, the issue you have is finding a company to sponsor you and they need to get an h1b for this to happen. uri -- Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com -- ----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------ --------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com --------- http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2010/12/msg1722.html Thu, 30 Dec 2010 01:32:00 +0000 Are foreign perl programmers needed in US? by Lev Leontiev Hi everybody. I have an idea to move to US from Russia Can you please tell me, if is it possible now to get a job and h1b sponsorship being a perl developer with 5 year experience? Is it possible to get a job and sponsorship remotely or I have to come to US first? Some of my US friends say that there is a recession and unemployment in industry, others say that industry is rising again. Sincerely yours, Lev. http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2010/12/msg1721.html Thu, 30 Dec 2010 01:10:37 +0000 Re: Singapore jobs - culture and similarity? by Greg Sabino Mullane -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160 Ask points out: > In the US some of those are illegal actually, rather than just inappropriate. The original posting did give me pause due to the picture requirement, but because the job was in Singapore, I approved it. I would not have had it been for a US job. All in all, I lean towards approval over non-approval as an employed Perl hacker makes the world a better place than a non-employed Perl hacker. :) > [1] As a sidenote we don't read them in great detail actually; just > scan for it looking like a real job and that it is a Perl job > ("we know it when we see it")). Yep. There is a suprising number of non-Perl jobs that try to get through, mostly recruiters blasting their latest Java job to every job-related email they can find. - -- Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 201012281248 http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iEYEAREDAAYFAk0aIwAACgkQvJuQZxSWSsggNQCg9/Rh0E3quGmRMcliMpBTpYpz 37cAoJcfsInqVV4TaOHLTwXFYs8ZtHCZ =Rsn+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2010/12/msg1720.html Tue, 28 Dec 2010 09:49:17 +0000 RE: Singapore jobs - culture and similarity? by Ryan Yagatich I've come across this during recruiting from a few other countries as well. It's standard practice in some locations to incorporate photos, father's job and other details in which we may not request from US applicants. -----Original Message----- From: Darren Duncan [mailto:darren@darrenduncan.net] Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 11:44 PM To: jobs-discuss@perl.org Subject: Singapore jobs - culture and similarity? Hello, I've noticed during the last couple weeks two job postings ... 1. http://jobs.perl.org/job/13380 2. http://jobs.perl.org/job/8974 ... and am wondering if any of you have experience concerning such. For example, the above 2 have a number of similarities but talk like they are unrelated. Also, how appropriate is it to be asking an applicant for their photo, which both of these do? Maybe its a different culture thing with Singapore, but as far as I know in North America it is inappropriate to be asking for a photo with an application, same as it is inappropriate to ask questions on one's family status or religion or politics etc in a job interview. Do or have any of you worked for a Singapore company and do you have any thoughts concerning these postings? -- Darren Duncan http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2010/12/msg1719.html Tue, 28 Dec 2010 07:23:40 +0000 Job opportunity in Budapest by Varga Veronika ÿØÿàJFIF``ÿÛC #%$""!&+7/&)4)!"0A149;>>>%.DIC<H7=>;ÿÛC ;("(;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;ÿÀ]ö"ÿÄ ÿÄµ}!1AQa"q2¡#B±ÁRÑð$3br %&'()*456789:CDEFGHIJSTUVWXYZcdefghijstuvwxyz¢£¤¥¦§¨©ª²³´µ¶·¸¹ºÂÃÄÅÆÇÈÉÊÒÓÔÕÖ×ØÙÚáâãäåæçèéêñòóôõö÷øùúÿÄ ÿÄµw!1AQaq"2B¡±Á #3RðbrÑ $4á%ñ&'()*56789:CDEFGHIJSTUVWXYZcdefghijstuvwxyz¢£¤¥¦§¨©ª²³´µ¶·¸¹ºÂÃÄÅÆÇÈÉÊÒÓÔÕÖ×ØÙÚâãäåæçèéêòóôõö÷øùúÿÚ?ö2@Z}FÒÔâ{£ÿy±Xþ.×H²XíØÉ q÷GfxcÃ^Ú.¥©©¹~PHIzÖ¨Ü¹c¹Ó¥ífìº\¥ÑÄ1Kì® XÉq\ü5O¨i{>b"ãrÕÏk«Y4W,ðc,?{j¥§É!º Òö´Ý×_#v{¸`eÊ_îî f¥VÏA\~¥³Uñ¤¼ÚéùzgWÒumKÄ~ !.^ÞÒ/ËøxÏÖ§Û.kê²qº{+³:µÀnâ¥°sVÕÃ²õÓV´xå|Üe$OÖ¹ë76ºÒ.¤.MÇ%XSW (µ¹0¡í)¹Eêû½-døê{/êWvÒæÙÞ7ÂÀu®NËY½µ·Ðî/$Ôdådù² Y1ãÂ»éèksô,Ñ\Vã·¼ÇÚl¡³ólî{6ÐÇ5øq-½³Ûé*ÓËÃ:¼ûBù?{çµwTf¹;/ËªÝ,lAÚGwpdUû.:*o x®OL4Ùbµ#,Wáí>ügéè¤Î 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Duncan wrote: >> Maybe its a different culture thing with Singapore, but as far as I know in >> North America it is inappropriate to be asking for a photo with an >> application, same as it is inappropriate to ask questions on one's family >> status or religion or politics etc in a job interview. > > In the US some of those are illegal actually, rather than just inappropriate. > > Some general notes as one of the volunteer moderators of the postings: <snip> Ask, thanks for your response. I just want to be up front and clarify that I'm not questioning whether the job postings should have been allowed to be posted, or anything like that. As far as a reading goes, they do indeed seem appropriate for postings. You're doing a good job and I'm not suggesting anything different. And so, the photo thing was actually a minor part of my question. What I really wanted to know was whether anyone on this list had any experience with Singapore companies, or what people's opinions were as to whether the two job postings I linked to were from the same company or not. Ignoring the photo thing, the desired skills descriptions and email addresses and so on, as well as the timing and other details, suggests to me that these might be from the same person, though other details suggest not. -- Darren Duncan http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2010/12/msg1717.html Mon, 27 Dec 2010 21:22:20 +0000 Re: Singapore jobs - culture and similarity? by Ask Bjørn Hansen On Dec 27, 2010, at 20:44, Darren Duncan wrote: > Maybe its a different culture thing with Singapore, but as far as I know in North America it is inappropriate to be asking for a photo with an application, same as it is inappropriate to ask questions on one's family status or religion or politics etc in a job interview. In the US some of those are illegal actually, rather than just inappropriate. Some general notes as one of the volunteer moderators of the postings: Unless we're alerted to something being illegal or particularly inappropriate we don't and can't filter on things like that when posting jobs to the site because it's basically impossible for us to know the culture and law all over the world. While we could reject things that just seem wrong to us[1]; it'd merely just make the poster slightly adjust the posting; but be unlikely to adjust their corporate (or national/cultural!) attitude so it seems like a better service to have the jobs go through as posted. As examples everyone will understand: We wouldn't want to correct "PERL" to "Perl". When someone posts something that's clearly a PHP job (but with some reference to Perl) and we reject it for not being a Perl job they'll often just move a sentence around so Perl is listed first. Does that really change the job? No. Is the posting now more correct? Who knows. - ask [1] As a sidenote we don't read them in great detail actually; just scan for it looking like a real job and that it is a Perl job ("we know it when we see it")). http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2010/12/msg1716.html Mon, 27 Dec 2010 20:54:04 +0000 Singapore jobs - culture and similarity? by Darren Duncan Hello, I've noticed during the last couple weeks two job postings ... 1. http://jobs.perl.org/job/13380 2. http://jobs.perl.org/job/8974 ... and am wondering if any of you have experience concerning such. For example, the above 2 have a number of similarities but talk like they are unrelated. Also, how appropriate is it to be asking an applicant for their photo, which both of these do? Maybe its a different culture thing with Singapore, but as far as I know in North America it is inappropriate to be asking for a photo with an application, same as it is inappropriate to ask questions on one's family status or religion or politics etc in a job interview. Do or have any of you worked for a Singapore company and do you have any thoughts concerning these postings? -- Darren Duncan http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2010/12/msg1715.html Mon, 27 Dec 2010 20:44:22 +0000 Who is available for contract work? by Gabor Szabo Hi, don't send your CV to me yet, I don't yet have the contract work available but read on: I was just contacted by a client for some work that will be bigger than I can do alone. The interesting part was that the client said "In the Java world there are lots of companies providing development services but he could not find any in the Perl world" The extra work is not big enough and long enought to hire someone so I need to find another contractor/consultant who could take some of the extra work. I thought I'll ask some of the people I know but then I realized that I don't even know about many of the people if they are employed or if they can offer contract work for a few weeks/months. There is a very short list of companies and individuals that provide consulting but I think it would be very useful to enlarge that list: https://www.socialtext.net/perl5/index.cgi?perl_businesses There is also another list in Github maintained by Chris Prather: http://github.com/perigrin/perl-consultants So it would be useful for me if there was a bigger list of Perl consultants of freelancers available on those pages and it would certainly better for the companies that are looking for such services. If any of you are providing consulting or contract work in Perl please add yourself to that page. If you know about others who offer such services, please ask them too to add info about themselves. regards  Gabor http://szabgab.com/ http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2010/08/msg1714.html Thu, 19 Aug 2010 14:43:23 +0000 Re: annual job stats? by Xaero Hi Everyone, I just joined the list and was reading though the old posts (that's what I just got for downloading 100 headers :-s). Thought it would be interesting to see how things have been on jobs.perl.org for the last decade since the first posting to jobs.perl.org happened sometime in May-01. Then realized it's only been 9 years :P, but since I spent sometime on it I decided to send this anyway. Wierd that Terrence Brannon should mention recession in early '07 and since we almost had one, I included a comparision to Dow Jones as well. Here it is: http://i46.tinypic.com/29e1yc6.png Regards. And a blast from the past :D > On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 15:54:16 -0500 > metaperl@gmail.com ("Terrence Brannon") wrote: > > It appears we are in wartime/recession and the job pickings are > super-thin. Is this just my impression? Is there a graph of jobs > posted to jobs.perl.org per annum somewhere? > > I'd like to see how things have gone since the site went live back in 200x. http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2010/06/msg1713.html Wed, 09 Jun 2010 07:00:35 +0000 posting delay? by Uri Guttman hi all, i posted a perl job almost 2 days ago and it hasn't been approved yet. the site claims reviews typically within 2-8 hours and it is approaching 48 hours now. i wonder if we need to add some moderators to help with any issues with prompt reviews of posts. when i was a moderator i tried to handle posts asap. is ask (i dunno who else moderates now, i am not one of them anymore) overloaded? i am willing to become a moderator again but some would claim conflict of interest since i am a perl recruiter. thanx, uri -- Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com -- ----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------ --------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com --------- http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2010/01/msg1712.html Thu, 07 Jan 2010 12:20:17 +0000 Re: We NEED a Perl guy by Tad J McClellan On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 05:49:41AM -0800, Mr P wrote: > Our company needs a Perl guy, preferably guru-class, and HR keeps > sending us candidates from Monster and Careers who are really sysadmin > types that *use a little* perl. You can tell from their resume that > they typically write 4-10 line utility scripts, and would never use > anything beyond what you'd find on the first 20 pages of Camel. > > We need a team-member who can assist on a huge enterprise-wide Perl ap > that manages much of our MES. > > So WHERE should we tell HR to seek THAT guy? If there was a > perl.resumes, it would be a nice place to start but... The absolute best place is the Perl Jobs mailing list (which is the "parent" of this very mailing list). http://lists.cpan.org/showlist.cgi?name=jobs http://jobs.perl.org/ If you decide to post there, I recommend that you use an email address different from the one you've used here, to avoid the taint associated with it. -- Tad McClellan http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2009/01/msg1711.html Sat, 24 Jan 2009 05:29:45 +0000 Re: We NEED a Perl guy by Uri Guttman >>>>> "P" == P <MisterPerl@gmail.com> writes: P> So WHERE should we tell HR to seek THAT guy? If there was a P> perl.resumes, it would be a nice place to start but... my question is how did you find this list before you found the actual jobs list and page at jobs.perl.org? :) uri -- Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com -- ----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------ --------- Free Perl Training --- http://perlhunter.com/college.html --------- --------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com --------- http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2009/01/msg1710.html Fri, 23 Jan 2009 18:29:04 +0000 Re: We NEED a Perl guy by Mike Williams On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 8:49 AM, Mr P <MisterPerl@gmail.com> wrote: > Our company needs a Perl guy, preferably guru-class, > We need a team-member who can assist on a huge enterprise-wide Perl ap > that manages much of our MES. > > So WHERE should we tell HR to seek THAT guy? If there was a > perl.resumes, it would be a nice place to start but... > > Another possibility is to contact Uri Guttman at uri@perlhunter.com - Uri is a perl guru as well as a headhunter who specializes in connecting perl programmers with clients who need them. Mike http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2009/01/msg1709.html Fri, 23 Jan 2009 17:39:34 +0000 Re: We NEED a Perl guy by Dave Rolsky On Fri, 23 Jan 2009, Mr P wrote: > Our company needs a Perl guy, preferably guru-class, and HR keeps > sending us candidates from Monster and Careers who are really sysadmin > types that *use a little* perl. You can tell from their resume that > they typically write 4-10 line utility scripts, and would never use > anything beyond what you'd find on the first 20 pages of Camel. > > We need a team-member who can assist on a huge enterprise-wide Perl ap > that manages much of our MES. > > So WHERE should we tell HR to seek THAT guy? If there was a > perl.resumes, it would be a nice place to start but... http://jobs.perl.org is a good place to start. -dave /*============================================================ http://VegGuide.org http://blog.urth.org Your guide to all that's veg House Absolute(ly Pointless) ============================================================*/ http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2009/01/msg1708.html Fri, 23 Jan 2009 13:20:28 +0000 We NEED a Perl guy by Mr P Our company needs a Perl guy, preferably guru-class, and HR keeps sending us candidates from Monster and Careers who are really sysadmin types that *use a little* perl. You can tell from their resume that they typically write 4-10 line utility scripts, and would never use anything beyond what you'd find on the first 20 pages of Camel. We need a team-member who can assist on a huge enterprise-wide Perl ap that manages much of our MES. So WHERE should we tell HR to seek THAT guy? If there was a perl.resumes, it would be a nice place to start but... http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2009/01/msg1707.html Fri, 23 Jan 2009 13:10:32 +0000 Re: [Perl Jobs] Perl 5 Developer (onsite), USA 77-110k, New York, NYC by Uri Guttman >>>>> "CS" == Craig Shaver <craig@myittybitty.com> writes: CS> I agree. It would be nice if we had a way of filtering out the CS> headhunters and job training offers. there is no problem with headhunters (i are one! :) posting to the jobs list . the issue is with claiming you are a direct employer and not being one. a better solution would be to contact this agency and ask them why they said they were an employer when they are not. they could have made a mistake, or be clueless with filling forms or genuinely evil and misleading. uri -- Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com -- ----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------ --------- Free Perl Training --- http://perlhunter.com/college.html --------- --------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com --------- http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2008/11/msg1706.html Thu, 06 Nov 2008 11:22:48 +0000 Re: [Perl Jobs] Perl 5 Developer (onsite), USA 77-110k, New York,NYC by Sal Petrara Hi Craig; Well I think that comes with trial and error. Experience though will dictate actions quickly. Craig Shaver wrote: > I agree. It would be nice if we had a way of filtering out the > headhunters and job training offers. > > David Kaufman wrote: >> This poster does not represent an employer, but rather a "recruiting >> agency", or temp service, "professional services firm", "staffing >> agency", or however this one chooses to put the lipstick on the pig. >> >> It's just a body shop, to me... >> >> -dave >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Perl Jobs" <jobs-admin@perl.org> >> To: <jobs@perl.org> >> Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 1:36 PM >> Subject: [Perl Jobs] Perl 5 Developer (onsite), USA 77-110k, New >> York, NYC >> >> >> Online URL for this job: http://jobs.perl.org/job/9834 >> >> To subscribe to this list, send mail to jobs-subscribe@perl.org. >> To unsubscribe, send mail to jobs-unsubscribe@perl.org. >> >> Posted: October 28, 2008 >> >> Job title: Perl 5 Developer >> >> Company name: Private E commerce >> >> Internal ID: 09-09 >> >> Location: USA 77-110k, New York, NYC >> >> Travel: 0% >> >> Poster represents: an employer >> >> Terms of employment: Salaried employee >> >> Hours: Full time >> >> Onsite: yes >> >> Description: >> >> We are looking for a full-time Perl developer to work on our existing >> systems as well as new development. >> >> >> Required skills: >> Technology Requirement >> >> · Perl 5 (Object Oriented Programming is a plus) >> · MySQL >> · Ability to code without the use of WYSIWYG editors (vi(m) or emacs) >> · Stong knowledge of xHTML, CSS and JavaScript is a big plus >> · Intermediate understanding of administering Unix / Apache / Mysql >> environment is required (MySql replication administration is a big plus) >> >> Additional skills that are a big plus to this position >> >> · PHP 4 and 5 (zend framework experience is a big plus) >> · Familiarity with RSS/XML standards >> · Experience building web-based tools & applications >> · Database design & optimization experience >> >> Requirements: >> >> · Ability to work at least 40 hours on site in our offices downtown New >> York City >> · Ability to put in a bit of extra time nights/weekends (from anywhere) >> when crises arise. >> · Can work independently with little direct supervision >> · Maintain project timelines and meet all project deadlines. >> · Willingness to tackle unfamiliar problems and take the time to >> discover >> "best practice" solutions >> · Excellent communication skills, both written & verbal >> · Familiarity with the basics of building a ecommerce & content sites. >> >> >> Desired skills: >> >> >> · Medical Program by Oxford Heath Plans (PPO) >> · Sponsored Physical Fitness Program with NY Sports Club >> · 401 K Plan >> · Profit Sharing Plan. >> · Life Insurance >> · Paid Vacation & Holidays >> · Continuing Education Program >> · Flexible spending plan >> · Associate Discounts and Savings >> >> Contact information: Andyp@prestigestaff.com >> >> > > -- Sincerely, Salvatore Petrara, CPC Managing Partner, The Horizon Group (516) 358-4141 Ext: 211, (212) 324-9700 Ext: 211 http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2008/11/msg1705.html Thu, 06 Nov 2008 10:21:15 +0000 Re: [Perl Jobs] Perl 5 Developer (onsite), USA 77-110k, New York,NYC by Craig Shaver I agree. It would be nice if we had a way of filtering out the headhunters and job training offers. David Kaufman wrote: > This poster does not represent an employer, but rather a "recruiting > agency", or temp service, "professional services firm", "staffing > agency", or however this one chooses to put the lipstick on the pig. > > It's just a body shop, to me... > > -dave > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Perl Jobs" <jobs-admin@perl.org> > To: <jobs@perl.org> > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 1:36 PM > Subject: [Perl Jobs] Perl 5 Developer (onsite), USA 77-110k, New York, > NYC > > > Online URL for this job: http://jobs.perl.org/job/9834 > > To subscribe to this list, send mail to jobs-subscribe@perl.org. > To unsubscribe, send mail to jobs-unsubscribe@perl.org. > > Posted: October 28, 2008 > > Job title: Perl 5 Developer > > Company name: Private E commerce > > Internal ID: 09-09 > > Location: USA 77-110k, New York, NYC > > Travel: 0% > > Poster represents: an employer > > Terms of employment: Salaried employee > > Hours: Full time > > Onsite: yes > > Description: > > We are looking for a full-time Perl developer to work on our existing > systems as well as new development. > > > Required skills: > Technology Requirement > > · Perl 5 (Object Oriented Programming is a plus) > · MySQL > · Ability to code without the use of WYSIWYG editors (vi(m) or emacs) > · Stong knowledge of xHTML, CSS and JavaScript is a big plus > · Intermediate understanding of administering Unix / Apache / Mysql > environment is required (MySql replication administration is a big plus) > > Additional skills that are a big plus to this position > > · PHP 4 and 5 (zend framework experience is a big plus) > · Familiarity with RSS/XML standards > · Experience building web-based tools & applications > · Database design & optimization experience > > Requirements: > > · Ability to work at least 40 hours on site in our offices downtown New > York City > · Ability to put in a bit of extra time nights/weekends (from anywhere) > when crises arise. > · Can work independently with little direct supervision > · Maintain project timelines and meet all project deadlines. > · Willingness to tackle unfamiliar problems and take the time to discover > "best practice" solutions > · Excellent communication skills, both written & verbal > · Familiarity with the basics of building a ecommerce & content sites. > > > Desired skills: > > > · Medical Program by Oxford Heath Plans (PPO) > · Sponsored Physical Fitness Program with NY Sports Club > · 401 K Plan > · Profit Sharing Plan. > · Life Insurance > · Paid Vacation & Holidays > · Continuing Education Program > · Flexible spending plan > · Associate Discounts and Savings > > Contact information: Andyp@prestigestaff.com > > http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2008/11/msg1704.html Thu, 06 Nov 2008 10:16:46 +0000 Re: [Perl Jobs] Perl 5 Developer (onsite), USA 77-110k, New York,NYC by Sal Petrara David; Just like there are good candidates and bad candidates there are also good recruiters and bad recruiters, the term "body shop" refers to consulting companies not to executive search firms. A good candidate and a good recruiter can make all the difference in the world and the same is true for the opposite. David Kaufman wrote: > This poster does not represent an employer, but rather a "recruiting > agency", or temp service, "professional services firm", "staffing > agency", or however this one chooses to put the lipstick on the pig. > > It's just a body shop, to me... > > -dave > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Perl Jobs" <jobs-admin@perl.org> > To: <jobs@perl.org> > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 1:36 PM > Subject: [Perl Jobs] Perl 5 Developer (onsite), USA 77-110k, New York, > NYC > > > Online URL for this job: http://jobs.perl.org/job/9834 > > To subscribe to this list, send mail to jobs-subscribe@perl.org. > To unsubscribe, send mail to jobs-unsubscribe@perl.org. > > Posted: October 28, 2008 > > Job title: Perl 5 Developer > > Company name: Private E commerce > > Internal ID: 09-09 > > Location: USA 77-110k, New York, NYC > > Travel: 0% > > Poster represents: an employer > > Terms of employment: Salaried employee > > Hours: Full time > > Onsite: yes > > Description: > > We are looking for a full-time Perl developer to work on our existing > systems as well as new development. > > > Required skills: > Technology Requirement > > · Perl 5 (Object Oriented Programming is a plus) > · MySQL > · Ability to code without the use of WYSIWYG editors (vi(m) or emacs) > · Stong knowledge of xHTML, CSS and JavaScript is a big plus > · Intermediate understanding of administering Unix / Apache / Mysql > environment is required (MySql replication administration is a big plus) > > Additional skills that are a big plus to this position > > · PHP 4 and 5 (zend framework experience is a big plus) > · Familiarity with RSS/XML standards > · Experience building web-based tools & applications > · Database design & optimization experience > > Requirements: > > · Ability to work at least 40 hours on site in our offices downtown New > York City > · Ability to put in a bit of extra time nights/weekends (from anywhere) > when crises arise. > · Can work independently with little direct supervision > · Maintain project timelines and meet all project deadlines. > · Willingness to tackle unfamiliar problems and take the time to discover > "best practice" solutions > · Excellent communication skills, both written & verbal > · Familiarity with the basics of building a ecommerce & content sites. > > > Desired skills: > > > · Medical Program by Oxford Heath Plans (PPO) > · Sponsored Physical Fitness Program with NY Sports Club > · 401 K Plan > · Profit Sharing Plan. > · Life Insurance > · Paid Vacation & Holidays > · Continuing Education Program > · Flexible spending plan > · Associate Discounts and Savings > > Contact information: Andyp@prestigestaff.com > > > > > -- Sincerely, Salvatore Petrara, CPC Managing Partner, The Horizon Group (516) 358-4141 Ext: 211, (212) 324-9700 Ext: 211 http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2008/11/msg1703.html Thu, 06 Nov 2008 07:46:46 +0000 Re: [Perl Jobs] Perl 5 Developer (onsite), USA 77-110k, New York, NYC by David Kaufman This poster does not represent an employer, but rather a "recruiting agency", or temp service, "professional services firm", "staffing agency", or however this one chooses to put the lipstick on the pig. It's just a body shop, to me... -dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Perl Jobs" <jobs-admin@perl.org> To: <jobs@perl.org> Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 1:36 PM Subject: [Perl Jobs] Perl 5 Developer (onsite), USA 77-110k, New York, NYC Online URL for this job: http://jobs.perl.org/job/9834 To subscribe to this list, send mail to jobs-subscribe@perl.org. To unsubscribe, send mail to jobs-unsubscribe@perl.org. Posted: October 28, 2008 Job title: Perl 5 Developer Company name: Private E commerce Internal ID: 09-09 Location: USA 77-110k, New York, NYC Travel: 0% Poster represents: an employer Terms of employment: Salaried employee Hours: Full time Onsite: yes Description: We are looking for a full-time Perl developer to work on our existing systems as well as new development. Required skills: Technology Requirement · Perl 5 (Object Oriented Programming is a plus) · MySQL · Ability to code without the use of WYSIWYG editors (vi(m) or emacs) · Stong knowledge of xHTML, CSS and JavaScript is a big plus · Intermediate understanding of administering Unix / Apache / Mysql environment is required (MySql replication administration is a big plus) Additional skills that are a big plus to this position · PHP 4 and 5 (zend framework experience is a big plus) · Familiarity with RSS/XML standards · Experience building web-based tools & applications · Database design & optimization experience Requirements: · Ability to work at least 40 hours on site in our offices downtown New York City · Ability to put in a bit of extra time nights/weekends (from anywhere) when crises arise. · Can work independently with little direct supervision · Maintain project timelines and meet all project deadlines. · Willingness to tackle unfamiliar problems and take the time to discover "best practice" solutions · Excellent communication skills, both written & verbal · Familiarity with the basics of building a ecommerce & content sites. Desired skills: · Medical Program by Oxford Heath Plans (PPO) · Sponsored Physical Fitness Program with NY Sports Club · 401 K Plan · Profit Sharing Plan. · Life Insurance · Paid Vacation & Holidays · Continuing Education Program · Flexible spending plan · Associate Discounts and Savings Contact information: Andyp@prestigestaff.com http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2008/11/msg1702.html Thu, 06 Nov 2008 06:00:52 +0000 Re: Low standards for SQL by Adrian Howard On 20 Jul 2008, at 01:02, Andy Lester wrote: > http://jobs.perl.org/job/9236 says: > > * Experience working with SQL databases such as MySQL. You can do > multi-table joins in your head and know the difference between inner > and outer joins. > > Is that really such a big deal to find? Are multi-table joins, and > the difference between inner & outer joins, that difficult for > programmers to understand that they must be specified in a job ad? Yes.... yes they are... Adrian http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2008/07/msg1701.html Sun, 20 Jul 2008 04:51:36 +0000 Re: Low standards for SQL by Dave Rolsky On Sat, 19 Jul 2008, Andy Lester wrote: > http://jobs.perl.org/job/9236 says: > > * Experience working with SQL databases such as MySQL. You can do multi-table > joins in your head and know the difference between inner and outer joins. > > Is that really such a big deal to find? Are multi-table joins, and the > difference between inner & outer joins, that difficult for programmers to > understand that they must be specified in a job ad? I'm kind of surprised you even have to ask this. How many apps have you seen where developers fetch a bunch of data from tables and then do things like do joins, sorting, restriction (aka WHERE) in the code? I've seen that sort of thing many times. I've found that most developers are remarkably ignorant about SQL, much less any of the background (like relational theory). They may sort of understand joins, where clauses, etc, but they don't really understand that this is all set math. Without that background, it can be hard to formulate more complex queries. The funny thing is that basic set math is, at least in the US, a common part of junior high or high school math. I remember learning it ages ago (8th or 9th grade, maybe), and a little set math is really all you need to understand a lot of SQL features. I think part of the problem is that if people have any knowledge of programming theory at all, the _only_ thing they know about is OO, and they don't really understand that too well either. I think people who only know OO tend to think of databases as a place to store objects, which is a just wrong for many applications. -dave /*========================== VegGuide.Org Your guide to all that's veg ==========================*/ http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2008/07/msg1700.html Sun, 20 Jul 2008 03:16:45 +0000 Low standards for SQL by Andy Lester http://jobs.perl.org/job/9236 says: * Experience working with SQL databases such as MySQL. You can do multi-table joins in your head and know the difference between inner and outer joins. Is that really such a big deal to find? Are multi-table joins, and the difference between inner & outer joins, that difficult for programmers to understand that they must be specified in a job ad? xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester => andy@petdance.com => www.petdance.com => AIM:petdance http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.jobs.discuss/2008/07/msg1699.html Sat, 19 Jul 2008 17:02:27 +0000