perl.documentation http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/ ... Copyright 1998-2017 perl.org Fri, 23 Jun 2017 08:07:56 +0000 ask@perl.org Re: updating perlre(1) by Lars =?UTF-8?B?RMmq4bSH4bSE4bSL4bSP4bShIOi/quaLieaWrw==?= Already taken care of in 7cf040c1f649790a4040aec47e47b4ce8b378728. http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2013/11/msg1061.html Sat, 30 Nov 2013 23:17:59 +0000 updating perlre(1) by =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Lars_Nood=E9n?= I would like to suggest that the two substitution modifiers, /e and /r, be <br/>given brief summaries in the list of modifiers at the beginning of <br/>perlre(1). The other modifiers are already there and they belong all <br/>together.<br/><br/>The modifier /e is described in &quot;Programming Perl&quot;, 4th ed, pp 186, <br/>254-255. /r is mentioned on p 186.<br/><br/>Where should suggestions for corrections be sent, is this the right list?<br/><br/>Could something like the text below be added?<br/><br/>Regards,<br/>/Lars<br/><br/>$ diff perlre.pod perlre.pod.orig<br/>124,134d123<br/>&lt; =item e<br/>&lt; X&lt;/e&gt;<br/>&lt;<br/>&lt; In a subsitution, treat the replacement portion as an interpreted expression.<br/>&lt; Each additional C&lt;/e&gt; modifier after the first functions as an eval() around the code to execute.<br/>&lt;<br/>&lt; =item r<br/>&lt; X&lt;/r&gt;<br/>&lt;<br/>&lt; In a substitution, return the replacement but leave the original string untouched.<br/>&lt;<br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2013/11/msg1060.html Sat, 30 Nov 2013 18:22:49 +0000 Re: Please, update docs (& pods) for Perl 5.16.3!!! by Leo Lapworth perlfaq was only updated yesterday which I believe was AFTER 5.16.3<br/>was built for testing.<br/><br/>It has since been updated into the git repo:<br/><br/>http://perl5.git.perl.org/perl.git/commit/f78966ffb0f47ffdd7e0bb07b422308709bd39ae<br/><br/>Please join #p5p if this is the sort of thing you are able to help with.<br/><br/>Thanks<br/><br/>Leo<br/><br/>On 7 March 2013 20:26, Joaquin Ferrero &lt;explorer@joaquinferrero.com&gt; wrote:<br/>&gt;<br/>&gt; And cherry-pick them!!!<br/>&gt;<br/>&gt;<br/>&gt; perlfaq is not updated, in Perl 5.16.3-RC1.<br/>&gt;<br/>&gt;<br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2013/03/msg1059.html Thu, 07 Mar 2013 21:00:27 +0000 Please, update docs (& pods) for Perl 5.16.3!!! by Joaquin Ferrero <br/>And cherry-pick them!!!<br/><br/><br/>perlfaq is not updated, in Perl 5.16.3-RC1.<br/><br/><br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2013/03/msg1058.html Thu, 07 Mar 2013 20:26:38 +0000 [ANNOUNCE] POD2::ES v5.16.2.02 by Joaquin Ferrero <br/>A new release of POD2::ES<br/><br/>-------------------------------------------------------------------<br/>Last Changes:<br/><br/>5.16.2.02 January 1, 2013<br/><br/> * Added the translation of perlre.pod and perlgit.pod<br/> * Fixed typo in ES.pm<br/> * Updated copyright year in ES.pm<br/><br/>-------------------------------------------------------------------<br/>Stats:<br/><br/>169 total docs, 109 core docs<br/>80 translated (47.34%)<br/>38 reviewed &amp; published<br/><br/>947,607 total words<br/>34.14% translated (63.61% core docs)<br/>21.35% reviewed &amp; published<br/><br/>-------------------------------------------------------------------<br/><br/>Links:<br/><br/>Live Stats, Graphs &amp; Tasks:<br/>https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkmrG_9Q4x15dC1MNWloU0lyUjhGa2NrdTVTOG5WZVE<br/><br/>Github : https://github.com/zipf/perldoc-es<br/>CPAN : http://search.cpan.org/dist/POD2-ES/<br/>metaCPAN : https://metacpan.org/release/POD2-ES<br/><br/><br/>-- <br/>JF^D<br/><br/><br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2013/01/msg1057.html Mon, 07 Jan 2013 22:59:45 +0000 [ANNOUNCE] POD2::ES v5.16.2.01 by =?UTF-8?B?Sm9hcXXDrW4gRmVycmVybw==?= Other new release of POD2::ES<br/><br/>-------------------------------------------------------------------<br/>Last Changes:<br/><br/>5.16.2.01 November 15, 2012<br/><br/> * Updated to v5.16.2<br/> * Added the translation of perlglossary.pod and perlcheat.pod<br/> * Changed the translation of &#39;closure&#39;<br/> * Fixed inconsistent translations of &#39;built-in&#39;<br/><br/>5.16.1.03 September 9, 2012<br/><br/> * Fixed bug in ES.pm (removed use 5.010 and forgot to<br/> change defined-or operator)<br/><br/>-------------------------------------------------------------------<br/>Stats:<br/><br/>169 total docs, 107 core docs<br/>78 translated (46.15%)<br/>36 reviewed &amp; published<br/><br/>947,607 total words<br/>33.60% translated (63.33% core docs)<br/>20.56% reviewed &amp; published<br/><br/>-------------------------------------------------------------------<br/><br/>Links:<br/><br/>Live Stats, Graphs &amp; Tasks:<br/>https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkmrG_9Q4x15dC1MNWloU0lyUjhGa2NrdTVTOG5WZVE<br/><br/>Github : https://github.com/zipf/perldoc-es<br/>CPAN : http://search.cpan.org/dist/POD2-ES/<br/>metaCPAN : https://metacpan.org/release/POD2-ES<br/><br/><br/>-- <br/>JF^D<br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2012/11/msg1056.html Thu, 15 Nov 2012 17:20:42 +0000 [ANNOUNCE] POD2::ES v5.16.1.02 by =?UTF-8?B?Sm9hcXXDrW4gRmVycmVybw==?= <br/>Other new release of POD2::ES.<br/><br/>-------------------------------------------------------------------<br/>Last Changes:<br/><br/>5.16.1.02 September 7, 2012<br/><br/> * Fixed POD formatting issues in perlhacktut.pod and<br/> perlnumber.pod<br/><br/>5.16.1.01 September 6, 2012<br/><br/> * Updated to 5.16.1<br/> * Changed the encoding of all ES docs to UTF-8<br/> * Implemented code and doc changes in ES.pm<br/> * Added the translation of perlmod.pod, perlmodinstall.pod,<br/> perlclib.pod, and perlhacktut.pod<br/><br/>-------------------------------------------------------------------<br/>Stats:<br/><br/>168 docs<br/>76 translated (45.51%)<br/>34 reviewed &amp; published<br/><br/>945,786 total words<br/>31.21% translated (46.46% core docs)<br/>11.60% reviewed &amp; published<br/><br/>-------------------------------------------------------------------<br/><br/>Links:<br/><br/>Live Stats, Graphs &amp; Tasks:<br/>https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkmrG_9Q4x15dC1MNWloU0lyUjhGa2NrdTVTOG5WZVE<br/><br/>CPAN : http://search.cpan.org/dist/POD2-ES/<br/>metaCPAN : https://metacpan.org/release/POD2-ES<br/>Github : https://github.com/zipf/perldoc-es<br/><br/>Grant Report #3:<br/>http://news.perlfoundation.org/2012/09/spanish-localization-of-the-pe-2.html<br/><br/>-- <br/>JF^D<br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2012/09/msg1055.html Sat, 08 Sep 2012 08:17:49 +0000 Re: perl 5.16.1 is now available by =?UTF-8?B?Sm9hcXXDrW4gRmVycmVybw==?= El 09/08/12 00:33, Ricardo Signes escribi&oacute;:<br/>&gt;<br/>&gt; Don&#39;t you know? You never split the party<br/>&gt; Clerics in the back to keep those fighters hale and hearty<br/>&gt; The wizard in the middle, where he can shed some light<br/>&gt; And you never let that damn thief out of sight&hellip;<br/>&gt;<br/>&gt; -- Emerald Rose, Never Split The Party<br/>&gt;<br/>&gt; We are pleased to announce Perl 5.16.1, the second stable release of<br/>&gt; Perl 5.16.<br/>&gt;<br/><br/>Er...<br/><br/>&iquest; What is the reason to not include the documentation patched ?<br/><br/>perlrun, perlfaq7, perlcheat, perlocale, perlre,<br/>perl5140delta, perlbook, perlcall, perlclib, perldata,<br/>perldebguts, perldiag, perldsc, perlebcdic, perlexperiment,<br/>perlform, perlfunc... and many others...<br/><br/><br/>JF<br/><br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2012/08/msg1054.html Wed, 08 Aug 2012 17:58:29 +0000 PerlDoc-ES project, 43,51% done by Joaquin Ferrero Hello,<br/><br/>Status of the project PerlDoc-ES:<br/><br/> 66 archives translated (all v5.16)<br/> 21 files in process<br/><br/> https://github.com/zipf/perldoc-es/tree/master/pod/translated<br/><br/><br/>Latest POD2::ES:<br/><br/> v5.16.0.04<br/><br/> http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?POD2%3A%3AES<br/><br/><br/>The project is at<br/><br/> 43.51% done (44.74% of core documentation)<br/><br/> 45,436 segments remain :)<br/><br/> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkmrG_9Q4x15dC1MNWloU0lyUjhGa2NrdTVTOG5WZVE<br/><br/><br/>Regards,<br/>Joaqu&iacute;n F.<br/><br/><br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2012/07/msg1053.html Mon, 02 Jul 2012 17:18:28 +0000 Re: documentation for the split command; webpage issues by Smylers An&scaron;a Vernerov&aacute; writes: <br/> <br/>&gt; Hello, I would like to report that the current documentation for the <br/>&gt; split command is erronerrous. <br/>&gt; http://perldoc.perl.org/functions/split.html says: <br/> <br/>Hi there. Thanks for spotting this, and taking the time to look into how <br/>you can report it. <br/> <br/>&gt; This must come from some edit of the older version of the <br/>&gt; documentation, which can be found e.g. at <br/>&gt; http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/docs/perldoc-html/functions/split.html : <br/> <br/>As it happens you can also get to older versions on the perldoc.perl.org <br/>site -- see the &#39;Perl version&#39; box near the top left, which lets you get <br/>to pages like this: http://perldoc.perl.org/5.12.2/functions/split.html <br/> <br/>However, an easier way to check precisely where this came from is to <br/>look at the source repository, which is here: <br/>http://perl5.git.perl.org/perl.git <br/> <br/>Click on &#39;tree&#39; to browse the files, guess that documentation is in the <br/>&#39;pod&#39; subdirectory, see &#39;perlfunc.pod&#39; in the list, and click &#39;blame&#39;, <br/>which takes you to this page: <br/>http://perl5.git.perl.org/perl.git/blame/HEAD:/pod/perlfunc.pod <br/> <br/>Searching that for &#39;$remainder&#39; takes you to the line in question, then <br/>clicking the commit ID at the start of that line goes to this commit: <br/>http://perl5.git.perl.org/perl.git/commit/bd4675851936488a7b28a813c5b60248be3e733b?f=pod/perlfunc.pod <br/> <br/>You can then click &#39;diff&#39; to see exactly what was changed. <br/> <br/>&gt; When I wanted to report this, I found it hard to find out where and <br/>&gt; how I should report. There is a contacts section at the bottom of the <br/>&gt; page, <br/> <br/>Those are contact details for the perldoc.perl.org site, which takes the <br/>documentation that comes with Perl, formats it nicely, and makes it <br/>available as a handy website. But JJ doesn&#39;t change the content, so that <br/>needs to be reported upstream. <br/> <br/>&gt; reporting to the perl 5 porters list did not seem adequate. <br/> <br/>The perlfunc documentation comes with perl, so the Perl 5 Porters are <br/>indeed the people to report this to, preferably using the perlbug <br/>command so that it gets tracked in their queue until resolved. <br/> <br/>If you have a suggested correction you can submit a patch with your bug <br/>report. (This would also get you in the credits of the next version of <br/>Perl.) See perlhack for friendly instructions on how to do that: <br/>http://perldoc.perl.org/perlhack.html <br/> <br/>Cheers <br/> <br/>Smylers <br/>-- <br/>http://twitter.com/Smylers2 <br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2012/06/msg1052.html Tue, 19 Jun 2012 05:57:11 +0000 Re: documentation for the split command; webpage issues by Leo Lapworth Hi, <br/> <br/>On 19 June 2012 12:20, Shlomi Fish &lt;shlomif@shlomifish.org&gt; wrote: <br/> <br/>&gt; On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 09:58:17 +0200 <br/>&gt; An&scaron;a Vernerov&aacute; &lt;ansa211@gmail.com&gt; wrote: <br/>&gt; &gt; I would like to report that the current documentation for the split <br/>&gt; command <br/>&gt; &gt; is erronerrous. <br/>&gt; &gt; http://perldoc.perl.org/functions/split.html says: <br/>&gt; &gt; <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; You can use the perlbug utility for that: <br/>&gt; http://perldoc.perl.org/perlbug.html <br/> <br/> <br/>perlbug would work... <br/> <br/>{snip} <br/> <br/> <br/>&gt; This points to: <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; * https://github.com/jonallen/perldoc.perl.org <br/> <br/> <br/>That&#39;s for changes to the perldoc.perl.org website - not the Perl <br/>documentations. <br/> <br/>If it&#39;s a bug with the actual documentation you need to contact p5p who <br/>maintain it (this is mentioned at the bottom of every page on the <br/>http://perldoc.perl.org/ site.) <br/> <br/>P5P mailing list is at: http://lists.perl.org/list/perl5-porters.html <br/> <br/>I&#39;ll let them know. <br/> <br/>Thanks for reporting it. <br/> <br/>Leo http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2012/06/msg1051.html Tue, 19 Jun 2012 05:51:06 +0000 Re: documentation for the split command; webpage issues by Shlomi Fish Hi An&scaron;a, <br/> <br/>On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 09:58:17 +0200 <br/>An&scaron;a Vernerov&aacute; &lt;ansa211@gmail.com&gt; wrote: <br/> <br/>&gt; Hello, <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; I would like to report that the current documentation for the split command <br/>&gt; is erronerrous. <br/>&gt; http://perldoc.perl.org/functions/split.html says: <br/>&gt; <br/> <br/>You can use the perlbug utility for that: <br/> <br/>http://perldoc.perl.org/perlbug.html <br/> <br/>&gt; -- <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; When I wanted to report this, I found it hard to find out where and how I <br/>&gt; should report. There is a contacts section at the bottom of the page, but <br/>&gt; neither Joe Allen&#39;s link nor the link to the project page seem to work - <br/>&gt; and reporting to the perl 5 porters list did not seem adequate. So I hope <br/>&gt; this is the right list to report such issues. <br/>&gt; <br/> <br/>Jon Allen&#39;s site appears to be down now (don&#39;t know why) but I was able to <br/>access a snapshot on the Wayback Machine: <br/> <br/>http://web.archive.org/web/20110724151052/http://perl.jonallen.info/projects/perldoc <br/> <br/>This points to: <br/> <br/>* https://github.com/jonallen/perldoc.perl.org <br/> <br/>which is part of https://github.com/jonallen and there&#39;s an E-mail there. I <br/>agree that Jon should restore his site to be online. <br/> <br/>Regards, <br/> <br/> Shlomi Fish <br/> <br/>&gt; An&scaron;a <br/> <br/> <br/> <br/>-- <br/>----------------------------------------------------------------- <br/>Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ <br/>UNIX Fortune Cookies - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/ <br/> <br/>Chuck Norris read the entire English Wikipedia in 24 hours. Twice. <br/> <br/>Please reply to list if it&#39;s a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply . <br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2012/06/msg1050.html Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:20:54 +0000 documentation for the split command; webpage issues by =?UTF-8?B?QW7FoWEgVmVybmVyb3bDoQ==?= Hello, <br/> <br/>I would like to report that the current documentation for the split command <br/>is erronerrous. <br/>http://perldoc.perl.org/functions/split.html says: <br/> <br/>-- <br/> <br/>In time-critical applications, it is worthwhile to avoid splitting into <br/>more fields than necessary. Thus, when assigning to a list, if LIMIT is <br/>omitted (or zero), then LIMIT is treated as though it were one larger than <br/>the number of variables in the list; for the following, LIMIT is implicitly <br/>4: <br/> <br/> <br/> 1. ($login, $passwd, $remainder) = split <br/>&lt;http://perldoc.perl.org/functions/split.html&gt;(/:/); <br/> <br/>-- <br/> <br/> <br/>Calling the third argument $remainer is simply wrong - the remainder is the <br/>fourth argument, which is not assigned to anything. This must come from <br/>some edit of the older version of the documentation, which can be found <br/>e.g. at http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/docs/perldoc-html/functions/split.html : <br/> <br/>-- <br/> <br/>The LIMIT parameter can be used to split a line partially <br/> <br/> ($login, $passwd, $remainder) = split <br/>&lt;http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/docs/perldoc-html/functions/split.html&gt;(/:/, <br/>$_, 3); <br/> <br/>When assigning to a list, if LIMIT is omitted, or zero, Perl supplies a <br/>LIMIT one larger than the number of variables in the list, to avoid <br/>unnecessary work. For the list above LIMIT would have been 4 by default. In <br/>time critical applications it behooves you not to split into more fields <br/>than you really need. <br/> <br/>-- <br/> <br/>When I wanted to report this, I found it hard to find out where and how I <br/>should report. There is a contacts section at the bottom of the page, but <br/>neither Joe Allen&#39;s link nor the link to the project page seem to work - <br/>and reporting to the perl 5 porters list did not seem adequate. So I hope <br/>this is the right list to report such issues. <br/> <br/>An&scaron;a http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2012/06/msg1049.html Tue, 19 Jun 2012 00:58:26 +0000 Re: Github changed pod rendering HTML format by Joaquin Ferrero El 25/03/12 12:04, Leon Timmermans escribi&oacute;:<br/>&gt; On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 3:10 AM, Joaquin Ferrero<br/>&gt; &lt;explorer@joaquinferrero.com&gt; wrote:<br/>&gt;&gt; Hi!.<br/>&gt;&gt;<br/>&gt;&gt; Today, I saw that Github render iso-8859-1 encoded pod pages with a double<br/>&gt;&gt; utf8 encoding bug.<br/>&gt;&gt;<br/>&gt;&gt; Example:<br/>&gt;&gt;<br/>&gt;&gt; https://github.com/zipf/perldoc-es/blob/master/pod/reviewed/perl.pod<br/>&gt;&gt;<br/>&gt;&gt; but, one pod utf8 encoded *with* =encoding utf8 tag, renders it well:<br/>&gt;&gt;<br/>&gt;&gt;<br/>&gt;&gt; https://github.com/zipf/perldoc-es/blob/master/pod/translated/perl5101delta.pod#___top<br/>&gt;&gt;<br/>&gt;&gt;<br/>&gt;&gt; &iquest;Will we need to change all POD documentation to utf8, definitely?<br/>&gt;&gt;<br/>&gt;<br/>&gt; This sounds like a bug in github to me, POD is latin-1 when no<br/>&gt; character set is given. As much as I&#39;m in favor of converting to utf8,<br/>&gt; github crewing up is not a good reason to do that.<br/>&gt;<br/>&gt; Leon<br/><br/>We are translating POD to Spanish, and this is a mess for our translation software.<br/><br/>My vote is for utf8 pod everywhere.<br/><br/><br/>JF^D<br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2012/06/msg1048.html Fri, 15 Jun 2012 02:26:39 +0000 Re: CPAN / new Perl 5 features / Perl upgrade conundrum by Joaquin Ferrero El 31/05/12 16:27, Christian Walde escribi&oacute;:<br/>&gt; On Thu, 31 May 2012 12:34:39 +0200, David Cantrell &lt;david@cantrell.org.uk&gt; wrote:<br/>&gt;<br/>&gt;&gt; On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 11:00:46AM -0400, Michael Peters wrote:<br/>&gt;&gt;<br/>&gt;&gt;&gt; Sure, just release a new 1.x version of your module that works for older<br/>&gt;&gt;&gt; perls and then a new 2.x version of your module for newer perls and<br/>&gt;&gt;&gt; cpXXXan will pick up which ones works for which versions of perl and<br/>&gt;&gt;&gt; gives the right one to the right user.<br/>&gt;&gt;<br/>&gt;&gt; Provided that the PAUSE lets you do that - I don&#39;t know if it allows<br/>&gt;&gt; version numbers to go backwards. But yes, assuming that it does, then<br/>&gt;&gt; that is exactly what would happen.<br/>&gt;<br/>&gt; Actually, it does not. The pause indexer will reject your upload if it detects version numbers going backwards.<br/>&gt;<br/>&gt; On the other hand: Releasing a 2.x.y that works on 5.6, then a 2.x.y+1 that works on 5.8, then a 2.x.y+2 that works on 5.16 should do the job fine and the cpanxxx mirrors should pick up the newer versions working on older perls.<br/>&gt;<br/><br/>This is a problem for POD2::ES, also, because we want<br/>to publish POD2::ES v5.14.2.09 and POD2::ES v5.16.0.01 at the same time,<br/>mainly for to save the translated OOP pods into v5.14 branch<br/>(perlboot, perlbot, perltooc and perltoot are deleted at Perl v5.16)<br/><br/>--<br/>JF<br/>PerlSpanish Team<br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2012/05/msg1047.html Thu, 31 May 2012 07:53:06 +0000 Perl v5.16R0, VMS and others docs issues by =?UTF-8?B?Sm9hcXXDrW4gRmVycmVybw==?= Hi!<br/><br/>Perl v5.16R0 links README[.](.*) docs from pod/perl$1.pod, but not for perlvms.pod,<br/>because perlvms.pod already exist.<br/><br/>pod/perlvms.pod and README.vms are different docs. So, README.vms is not installed with the distribution, only perlvms.pod.<br/><br/>Another issue (?) is README.micro. It still exists, but is not linked by perl.pod, and therefore perlmicro.pod is not generated.<br/><br/><br/>JF^D<br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2012/05/msg1046.html Mon, 14 May 2012 18:12:06 +0000 [ANNOUNCE] POD2::ES v5.14.2.07. by Joaquin Ferrero Hello,<br/><br/>Last Changes of the project PerlDoc-ES:<br/><br/>* perlunifaq.pod translated and reviewed<br/>* Presented grant proposal to TPF<br/>http://news.perlfoundation.org/2012/05/2012q2-grant-proposal-spanish.html<br/><br/><br/>The project is at 43.02% done (41.46% of core documentation).<br/> <br/><br/>Public Progress and Statistics:<br/> <br/>PerlDoc-ES.Traducci&oacute;n<br/>https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkmrG_9Q4x15dC1MNWloU0lyUjhGa2NrdTVTOG5WZVE<br/> <br/>For more information on the project, please visit<br/>https://github.com/zipf/perldoc-es<br/> <br/>Regards,<br/>Joaqu&iacute;n F.<br/><br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2012/05/msg1045.html Fri, 04 May 2012 12:12:42 +0000 PerlDoc-ES project, at 33,33% done by Joaquin Ferrero Hello,<br/><br/>Last Changes of the project PerlDoc-ES:<br/><br/> 49 pod files translated<br/> 19 README files translated<br/> 31 files in process<br/><br/><br/>The project is at<br/><br/> 37.45% done (33.33% of core documentation)<br/><br/> 55,585 segments remain :)<br/><br/><br/>Public Progress and Statistics:<br/><br/> PerlDoc-ES.Traducci&oacute;n<br/> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkmrG_9Q4x15dC1MNWloU0lyUjhGa2NrdTVTOG5WZVE<br/><br/><br/><br/>For more information on the project, please visit<br/>https://github.com/zipf/perldoc-es<br/><br/>Regards,<br/>Joaqu&iacute;n F.<br/>-- <br/>JF^D<br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2012/04/msg1044.html Fri, 06 Apr 2012 17:49:28 +0000 Re: Github changed pod rendering HTML format by Leon Timmermans On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 3:10 AM, Joaquin Ferrero <br/>&lt;explorer@joaquinferrero.com&gt; wrote: <br/>&gt; Hi!. <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; Today, I saw that Github render iso-8859-1 encoded pod pages with a double <br/>&gt; utf8 encoding bug. <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; Example: <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;https://github.com/zipf/perldoc-es/blob/master/pod/reviewed/perl.pod <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; but, one pod utf8 encoded *with* =encoding utf8 tag, renders it well: <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; &nbsp;https://github.com/zipf/perldoc-es/blob/master/pod/translated/perl5101delta.pod#___top <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; &iquest;Will we need to change all POD documentation to utf8, definitely? <br/>&gt; <br/> <br/>This sounds like a bug in github to me, POD is latin-1 when no <br/>character set is given. As much as I&#39;m in favor of converting to utf8, <br/>github crewing up is not a good reason to do that. <br/> <br/>Leon <br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2012/03/msg1043.html Sun, 25 Mar 2012 03:04:47 +0000 Github changed pod rendering HTML format by Joaquin Ferrero Hi!.<br/><br/>Today, I saw that Github render iso-8859-1 encoded pod pages with a double utf8 encoding bug.<br/><br/>Example:<br/><br/> https://github.com/zipf/perldoc-es/blob/master/pod/reviewed/perl.pod<br/><br/>but, one pod utf8 encoded *with* =encoding utf8 tag, renders it well:<br/><br/> https://github.com/zipf/perldoc-es/blob/master/pod/translated/perl5101delta.pod#___top<br/><br/><br/>&iquest;Will we need to change all POD documentation to utf8, definitely?<br/><br/>-- <br/>JF^D<br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2012/03/msg1042.html Sat, 24 Mar 2012 18:10:57 +0000 Fw: Two Documents Restored from perl.net.au by Shlomi Fish <br/> <br/>Begin forwarded message: <br/> <br/>Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2012 20:00:32 +0200 <br/>From: Shlomi Fish &lt;shlomif@shlomifish.org&gt; <br/>To: Perl in Israel &lt;perl@perl.org.il&gt; <br/>Subject: Two Documents Restored from perl.net.au <br/> <br/> <br/>Hi all. <br/> <br/>http://perl.net.au/ was a somewhat popular wiki for all things Perl. Then it <br/>was heavily spammed, and afterwards went completely offline for many months, <br/>and the admins have become busy. Luckily, in the past days I was able to restore <br/>some of the contents from the Wayback Machine, and place them here and here: <br/> <br/>* http://perl-begin.org/FAQs/freenode-perl/ - the Freenode #perl&rsquo;s FAQ. <br/> <br/>* http://perl-begin.org/humour/ - a page collecting Perl Humour. <br/> <br/>I plan to restore more stuff. <br/> <br/>For how I restored it: I tried several scripts (and a CPAN module) I found <br/>online (which were hard to come by, and I was disappointed that apparently the <br/>Wayback Machine does not provide a Web API), and eventually used this script <br/>written in Python: <br/> <br/>http://code.activestate.com/recipes/286224-pulling-stuff-out-of-the-internet-archive-wayback-/ <br/> <br/>I had to modify it to not be recursive. <br/> <br/>Anyway, enjoy! <br/> <br/>Regards, <br/> <br/> Shlomi Fish <br/> <br/>-- <br/>----------------------------------------------------------------- <br/>Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ <br/>What Makes Software Apps High Quality - http://shlom.in/sw-quality <br/> <br/>Every successful open source project will eventually spawn a sub&#x2010;project. <br/> <br/>Please reply to list if it&#39;s a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply . <br/> <br/> <br/>-- <br/>----------------------------------------------------------------- <br/>Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ <br/>Chuck Norris/etc. Facts - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/ <br/> <br/>Beliefs are what divide people. Doubt unites them. <br/> &mdash; http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Peter_Ustinov <br/> <br/>Please reply to list if it&#39;s a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply . <br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2012/03/msg1041.html Sat, 24 Mar 2012 11:04:17 +0000 Re: Perl 5 wiki by Gabor Szabo On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Lars D&#x26A;&#x1D07;&#x1D04;&#x1D0B;&#x1D0F;&#x1D21; &#x8FEA;&#x62C9;&#x65AF; &lt;daxim@cpan.org&gt; wrote: <br/>&gt; The [official Perl 5 wiki](http://p3rl.org/wiki) has recently become <br/>&gt; unusable for its original purpose, see the <br/>&gt; [announcement](http://use.perl.org/~schwern/journal/33751). It is <br/>&gt; currently impossible to register as a new user. I sent an email to <br/>&gt; &lt;support@socialtext.com&gt; six days ago and have yet to receive an <br/>&gt; acknowledgement/reply/fix. <br/> <br/>I guess you are talking about https://www.socialtext.net/perl5/ <br/>While I would like to have a better solution but in the meantime <br/>there is the big &quot;Registration and Support&quot; link at the top that leads <br/>to a page which tells me to ask one of the administrators to get a new <br/>account. <br/> <br/>Unfortunately I am the only one listed there :-( <br/> <br/>I don&#39;t have any more powers there but I can add new users. <br/> <br/>Gabor <br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2012/02/msg1040.html Mon, 13 Feb 2012 08:31:54 +0000 Perl 5 wiki by Lars =?UTF-8?B?RMmq4bSH4bSE4bSL4bSP4bShIOi/quaLieaWrw==?= The [official Perl 5 wiki](http://p3rl.org/wiki) has recently become <br/>unusable for its original purpose, see the <br/>[announcement](http://use.perl.org/~schwern/journal/33751). It is <br/>currently impossible to register as a new user. I sent an email to <br/>&lt;support@socialtext.com&gt; six days ago and have yet to receive an <br/>acknowledgement/reply/fix. <br/> <br/>I am looking for a champion to take up the cause: investigate what&#39;s <br/>going on and keep nagging so that access to registration is restored. <br/>In case we cannot get satisfaction in a reasonable time, let&#39;s consider <br/>cutting ties. Some initial thoughts: <br/> <br/>* Export everything, tools available from <br/> &lt;http://search.cpan.org/~lukec/&gt;. <br/>* Evaluate Perl wiki softwares and import. Should support [Wiki <br/> Creole](http://enwp.org/Creole_(markup)) and <br/> [Markdown](http://enwp.org/Markdown) syntaxes for editing. Usability <br/> must pass mst&#39;s opinion as &quot;not crap&quot;. Must not have URL cruft. <br/> Insert your own favourite bikeshed colour here. <br/>* Find a reliable host for the software: Perl NOC/digital <br/> craftsmen/speedchilli/etc. <br/>* Ask [Perl NOC](http://noc.perl.org/) for `wiki.perl.org` CNAME. <br/>* Send webmasters of perlfoundation.org and socialtext.net some <br/> configuration snippets for their Apache httpd and nginx so that the <br/> legacy URLs permanently redirect to the new ones. http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2012/02/msg1039.html Mon, 13 Feb 2012 07:05:30 +0000 [ANNOUNCE] POD2::ES v5.14.2.05 by Joaquin Ferrero <br/>Hello,<br/><br/>A new release of POD2::ES is now available on CPAN.<br/><br/><br/>Last Changes:<br/><br/>5.14.2.05 October 30, 2011<br/><br/> * Fixed typo and made other changes in perlpragma.pod<br/><br/>5.14.2.04 October 29, 2011<br/><br/> * Added the translation of perlpragma.pod<br/> * Minor changes in perlfaq1.pod and perlutil.pod<br/> * Pod fix in perlstyle.pod<br/><br/>5.14.2.03 October 22, 2011<br/><br/> * Added the translation of perlstyle.pod<br/> * Minor changes in perldbmfilter.pod<br/><br/>5.14.2.02 October 7, 2011<br/><br/> * Added the translation of perldoc.pod<br/><br/>5.14.2.01 October 6, 2011<br/><br/> * Updated to Perl v5.14.2<br/> * Added the translation of perldbmfilter.pod<br/> <br/><br/><br/>The project is at 32.28%.<br/><br/><br/>For more information on the project, please visit https://github.com/zipf/perldoc-es<br/><br/>Best regards,<br/>Joaqu&iacute;n<br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2011/10/msg1038.html Sat, 29 Oct 2011 19:21:50 +0000 Re: About.com Guide for Perl [was Fwd: RE: Guide Application for[Perl]] by Shlomi Fish Hello Joel, <br/> <br/>sorry for the late response. <br/> <br/>On Tue, 31 May 2011 11:15:08 -0500 <br/>Joel Limardo &lt;joel.limardo@forwardphase.com&gt; wrote: <br/> <br/>&gt; I was the one who asked for your writing sample. I wanted to see if there <br/>&gt; was something fairly obvious in your writing that would cause a rejection. <br/>&gt; After looking at the links you provided, I&#39;m sad to say that I agree with <br/>&gt; About.com. <br/>&gt; <br/> <br/>Well, in my letter I asked if anyone would be willing to volunteer for <br/>maintaining the Perl section of About.com, due to the fact that my <br/>application was rejected. The fact that my application was rejected was a <br/>given and I assumed there was little or nothing I could do about it. Telling me <br/>why my writing is lacking, is besides the point of finding someone to maintain <br/>the Perl section on About.com, and I didn&#39;t request that input. <br/> <br/>Thanks for passing your commentary on my writing, but it&#39;s not going to help <br/>with the issue I raised. <br/> <br/>Regards, <br/> <br/> Shlomi Fish <br/> <br/>-- <br/>----------------------------------------------------------------- <br/>Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ <br/>Interview with Ben Collins-Sussman - http://shlom.in/sussman <br/> <br/>Had I not been already insane, I would have long ago driven myself mad. <br/> &mdash; The Enemy and how I Helped to Fight It <br/> <br/>Please reply to list if it&#39;s a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply . <br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2011/09/msg1037.html Sat, 10 Sep 2011 03:33:58 +0000 HTTP::Tiny and JSON::PP by Naveed Massjouni I noticed that perldoc.perl.org does not list HTTP::Tiny and JSON::PP<br/>as core modules. I believe this is a documentation bug. 5.14 has been<br/>out for a while now. I have contacted Jon Allen a couple weeks ago<br/>about this and have not heard a response. Hopefully someone on this<br/>list can do something about this.<br/><br/>Thanks,<br/>Naveed<br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2011/09/msg1036.html Wed, 07 Sep 2011 20:32:46 +0000 Re: new package syntax, where do I return true? by Caleb Cushing On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 1:13 AM, Flavio Poletti &lt;flavio@polettix.it&gt; wrote: <br/>&gt; i.e. it advices you to return a true value from the *file*, not from the <br/>&gt; package. This seems to be confirmed by require&#39;s documentation: <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The file must return true as the last statement to indicate <br/>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; successful execution of any initialization code, so it&#39;s <br/>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; customary to end such a file with &quot;1;&quot; unless you&#39;re sure <br/>&gt; it&#39;ll <br/>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; return true otherwise.&nbsp; But it&#39;s better just to put the &quot;1;&quot;, <br/>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; in case you add more statements. <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; Again, we&#39;re talking about the file, not any package inside. <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; At this point, we could argue that putting the &quot;1;&quot; inside the block makes <br/>&gt; the whole code return a true value... but considering that the &quot;1;&quot; is <br/>&gt; file-related and that it seems difficult to handle properly in Perl::Critic, <br/>&gt; is this worth a crusade? <br/> <br/>probably not, but I thought that this was the package that needed to <br/>be returned true from and not the file. Now I understand. Thanks. <br/> <br/>-- <br/>Caleb Cushing <br/> <br/>http://xenoterracide.com <br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2011/07/msg1035.html Sat, 02 Jul 2011 09:17:34 +0000 Re: new package syntax, where do I return true? by brian d foy [[ This message was both posted and mailed: see<br/> the &quot;To,&quot; &quot;Cc,&quot; and &quot;Newsgroups&quot; headers for details. ]]<br/><br/>In article &lt;BANLkTikBYCOVX60JyEJNh27ETNYODUXT=w@mail.gmail.com&gt;, Caleb<br/>Cushing &lt;xenoterracide@gmail.com&gt; wrote:<br/><br/>&gt; Having a little debate over this on a Perl::Critic ticket. I&#39;m not<br/>&gt; sure anyone is sure and the docs don&#39;t say.<br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=69234<br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; is it package foo { ... 1; } or package foo { ... }; 1; ? or what?<br/>&gt; and is it possible this could get clarified in the next edition of the<br/>&gt; docs?<br/><br/>You don&#39;t need to return true from a package. You need to return true<br/>from a use-d or require-d file so that the last statement in the file<br/>returns true and perl knows it successfully loaded the file. It&#39;s<br/>nothing to do with packages. You still need that true value even if you<br/>have no packages declared in that file.<br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2011/07/msg1034.html Sat, 02 Jul 2011 07:55:20 +0000 Re: new package syntax, where do I return true? by Chas. Owens On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 08:53, Chas. Owens &lt;chas.owens@gmail.com&gt; wrote: <br/>&gt; On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 00:00, Caleb Cushing &lt;xenoterracide@gmail.com&gt; wrote: <br/>&gt;&gt; Having a little debate over this on a Perl::Critic ticket. I&#39;m not <br/>&gt;&gt; sure anyone is sure and the docs don&#39;t say. <br/>&gt;&gt; <br/>&gt;&gt; https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=69234 <br/>snip <br/> <br/>I have just reread perlmod and perlmodlib. It looks like they both <br/>need a decent amount of work to bring them in line with the new <br/>package syntax. For instance, <br/> <br/> Give the module a version/issue/release number. <br/> <br/> To be fully compatible with the Exporter and MakeMaker modules <br/> you should store your module&rsquo;s version number in a non&#x2010;my <br/> package variable called $VERSION. This should be a floating <br/> point number with at least two digits after the decimal (i.e., <br/> hundredths, e.g, &quot;$VERSION = &quot;0.01&quot;&quot;). Don&rsquo;t use a &quot;1.3.2&quot; <br/> style version. See Exporter for details. <br/> <br/>Should probably be changed to refer to the second package argument <br/>with a caveat about possibly needing $VERSION to satisfy old static <br/>analysis code. <br/> <br/>-- <br/>Chas. Owens <br/>wonkden.net <br/>The most important skill a programmer can have is the ability to read. <br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2011/07/msg1033.html Sat, 02 Jul 2011 06:07:07 +0000 Re: new package syntax, where do I return true? by Chas. Owens On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 00:00, Caleb Cushing &lt;xenoterracide@gmail.com&gt; wrote: <br/>&gt; Having a little debate over this on a Perl::Critic ticket. I&#39;m not <br/>&gt; sure anyone is sure and the docs don&#39;t say. <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=69234 <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; is it package foo { ... 1; } &nbsp;or package foo { ... }; 1; ? or what? <br/>&gt; and is it possible this could get clarified in the next edition of the <br/>&gt; docs? <br/>&gt; -- <br/>&gt; Caleb Cushing <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; http://xenoterracide.com <br/>&gt; <br/> <br/>My take on this is that <br/> <br/>package Foo { <br/>} <br/> <br/>is the same thing as <br/> <br/>{ <br/>package Foo; <br/>} <br/> <br/>Therefore, if your style allowed <br/> <br/>{ <br/>package Foo; <br/>1; <br/>} <br/> <br/>then it should allow <br/> <br/>package Foo { <br/> 1; <br/>} <br/> <br/>However, I think you can make a good argument for not allowing that. <br/>A module is not a package. The fact that it is customary for modules <br/>to consist of one package sometimes confuses this, but there is no <br/>requirement that a module include a package at all. From that basis, <br/>I would argue that <br/> <br/>package Foo { <br/>} <br/> <br/>1; <br/> <br/>is more correct. <br/> <br/>-- <br/>Chas. Owens <br/>wonkden.net <br/>The most important skill a programmer can have is the ability to read. <br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2011/07/msg1032.html Sat, 02 Jul 2011 05:54:16 +0000 new package syntax, where do I return true? by Caleb Cushing Having a little debate over this on a Perl::Critic ticket. I&#39;m not<br/>sure anyone is sure and the docs don&#39;t say.<br/><br/>https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=69234<br/><br/><br/>is it package foo { ... 1; } or package foo { ... }; 1; ? or what?<br/>and is it possible this could get clarified in the next edition of the<br/>docs?<br/>-- <br/>Caleb Cushing<br/><br/>http://xenoterracide.com<br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2011/07/msg1031.html Fri, 01 Jul 2011 21:00:16 +0000 Re: About.com Guide for Perl [was Fwd: RE: Guide Application for [Perl]] by Shlomi Fish Hi all,<br/><br/>On Tuesday 24 May 2011 22:57:27 Shlomi Fish wrote:<br/>&gt; Hi all,<br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; Can anyone here volunteer to write about Perl for http://perl.about.com/ ?<br/>&gt; It&#39;s been suffering from a lot of neglect, and my application for a writer<br/>&gt; there was rejected (see below).<br/>&gt; <br/><br/>Someone asked me (in private - :-( ) what my writing sample looked like, and <br/>since this was a form submission and it was a long time ago, I don&#39;t recall <br/>exactly, but I think they were these:<br/><br/>* http://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/Perl/Newbies/<br/><br/>* http://perl-begin.org/<br/><br/>Regards,<br/><br/> Shlomi Fish<br/><br/>&gt; Regards,<br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; Shlomi Fish<br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; ---------- Forwarded Message ----------<br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; Subject: RE: Guide Application for [Perl]<br/>&gt; Date: Tuesday 24 May 2011, 18:01:03<br/>&gt; From: jmola@about.com<br/>&gt; To: shlomif@shlomifish.org, shlomif@gmail.com<br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; Shlomi,<br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; While we thank you for taking the time to apply to be an About.com Guide,<br/>&gt; we have decided not to accept your application for entry into Prep. A few<br/>&gt; common reasons why your application was not accepted include:<br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; * We are looking for someone with more professional writing experience.<br/>&gt; * We are looking for someone with more writing experience in the topic.<br/>&gt; * We are looking for someone with different qualifications.<br/>&gt; * The writing in the writing sample was not up to our standards or had<br/>&gt; typographical errors.<br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; If you feel that you did not represent yourself to your best advantage in<br/>&gt; your application and you wish to apply again, you are more than welcome to<br/>&gt; do so at http://beaguide.about.com. In addition, you may also be<br/>&gt; interested in applying to be a writer for ConsumerSearch, a member of the<br/>&gt; About, Inc. group of companies looking for writers to join their teams. <br/>&gt; If so, we encourage you to apply via the following link:<br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; * Consumer Search: http://www.consumersearch.com/www/jobs.html.<br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; Thanks again for your application,<br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; About.com Recruitment and Training Team<br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; -----------------------------------------<br/><br/>-- <br/>-----------------------------------------------------------------<br/>Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/<br/>First stop for Perl beginners - http://perl-begin.org/<br/><br/>In Soviet Russia, XSLT codes you. Badly!<br/><br/>Please reply to list if it&#39;s a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .<br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2011/05/msg1030.html Tue, 31 May 2011 04:29:36 +0000 About.com Guide for Perl [was Fwd: RE: Guide Application for [Perl]] by Shlomi Fish Hi all,<br/><br/>Can anyone here volunteer to write about Perl for http://perl.about.com/ ? <br/>It&#39;s been suffering from a lot of neglect, and my application for a writer <br/>there was rejected (see below).<br/><br/>Regards,<br/><br/> Shlomi Fish<br/><br/>---------- Forwarded Message ----------<br/><br/>Subject: RE: Guide Application for [Perl]<br/>Date: Tuesday 24 May 2011, 18:01:03<br/>From: jmola@about.com<br/>To: shlomif@shlomifish.org, shlomif@gmail.com<br/><br/><br/>Shlomi,<br/><br/>While we thank you for taking the time to apply to be an About.com Guide, we <br/>have decided not to accept your application for entry into Prep. A few common <br/>reasons why your application was not accepted include:<br/><br/>* We are looking for someone with more professional writing experience.<br/>* We are looking for someone with more writing experience in the topic.<br/>* We are looking for someone with different qualifications.<br/>* The writing in the writing sample was not up to our standards or had <br/>typographical errors.<br/><br/>If you feel that you did not represent yourself to your best advantage in your <br/>application and you wish to apply again, you are more than welcome to do so at <br/>http://beaguide.about.com. In addition, you may also be interested in <br/>applying to be a writer for ConsumerSearch, a member of the About, Inc. group <br/>of companies looking for writers to join their teams. If so, we encourage you <br/>to apply via the following link:<br/><br/>* Consumer Search: http://www.consumersearch.com/www/jobs.html.<br/><br/>Thanks again for your application, <br/><br/>About.com Recruitment and Training Team<br/><br/>-----------------------------------------<br/>-- <br/>-----------------------------------------------------------------<br/>Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/<br/>First stop for Perl beginners - http://perl-begin.org/<br/><br/>Knuth is not God! Unless you confuse him with Dijkstra.<br/><br/>Please reply to list if it&#39;s a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .<br/><br/>-- <br/>-----------------------------------------------------------------<br/>Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/<br/>My Favourite FOSS - http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/favourite/<br/><br/>Mastering &#39;cat&#39; is almost as difficult as herding cats.<br/>-- http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/Mastering-Cat/<br/><br/>Please reply to list if it&#39;s a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .<br/>-- <br/>-----------------------------------------------------------------<br/>Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/<br/>Best Introductory Programming Language - http://shlom.in/intro-lang<br/><br/>* Backward compatibility is your worst enemy.<br/>* Backward compatibility is your users&#39; best friend.<br/><br/>Please reply to list if it&#39;s a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .<br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2011/05/msg1029.html Tue, 24 May 2011 12:57:48 +0000 Re: insufficient shift operator explanation by Leon Timmermans On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 1:36 AM, Chas. Owens &lt;chas.owens@gmail.com&gt; wrote:<br/>&gt; Take a look at the explanation at<br/>&gt; https://github.com/cowens/perlopquick/raw/master/perlopquick.pod<br/>&gt;<br/>&gt; I guess I should finish that doc now that I am unemployed.<br/><br/>5.14.0&#39;s first release candidate is scheduled for April 1st, code<br/>freeze is next Sunday. If it isn&#39;t finished quickly, it will have to<br/>wait until next year to be included into perl.<br/><br/>Leon<br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2011/03/msg1028.html Thu, 17 Mar 2011 04:02:52 +0000 Re: insufficient shift operator explanation by Chas. Owens On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 20:30, herbert breunung &lt;deirdre_skye@web.de&gt; wrote:<br/>&gt; on page http://perldoc.perl.org/perlop.html#Shift-Operators<br/>&gt;<br/>&gt; shift should be explained as the next op below.<br/>&gt; if you like i can write a proposal<br/>&gt;<br/>&gt; cheesrs :)<br/>&gt;<br/><br/>Take a look at the explanation at<br/>https://github.com/cowens/perlopquick/raw/master/perlopquick.pod<br/><br/>I guess I should finish that doc now that I am unemployed.<br/><br/>-- <br/>Chas. Owens<br/>wonkden.net<br/>The most important skill a programmer can have is the ability to read.<br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2011/03/msg1027.html Wed, 16 Mar 2011 17:37:12 +0000 insufficient shift operator explanation by herbert breunung on page http://perldoc.perl.org/perlop.html#Shift-Operators<br/><br/>shift should be explained as the next op below.<br/>if you like i can write a proposal<br/><br/>cheesrs :)<br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2011/03/msg1026.html Wed, 16 Mar 2011 17:31:11 +0000 Re: Current Issues with perlipc.pod - should they be fixed? by Abigail On Mon, Dec 06, 2010 at 08:45:01PM +0200, Shlomi Fish wrote:<br/>&gt; On Monday 06 December 2010 19:49:44 Abigail wrote:<br/>&gt; &gt; On Mon, Dec 06, 2010 at 07:34:35PM +0200, Shlomi Fish wrote:<br/>&gt; &gt; &gt; Now I think that some of my style/best-practices suggestions are an<br/>&gt; &gt; &gt; improvement and I&#39;d like to pursue them.<br/>&gt; &gt; <br/>&gt; &gt; And I&#39;m strongly against that sentiment.<br/>&gt; &gt; <br/>&gt; &gt; I really do think p5p, and hence the documentation, should *not* have a<br/>&gt; &gt; style preference, or have some form of &quot;best practice&quot; (nor do I believe<br/>&gt; &gt; you&#39;ll find consensus on what &quot;best practice&quot; will be). Style guides,<br/>&gt; &gt; coding standards, best practices, or whatever you want to label it only<br/>&gt; &gt; gives rise to coding police, and it&#39;s only fuel to people who only answer<br/>&gt; &gt; questions on usenet or Perlmonks with &quot;well, for starters following these<br/>&gt; &gt; as these rules&quot;, regardless whether that helps answering the question<br/>&gt; &gt; or not.<br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; Well, I don&#39;t frequent either Usenet or Perlmonks, but let me answer. (For the <br/>&gt; record, I help a lot on IRC and on mailing lists.) I&#39;ve collected a longish <br/>&gt; list of bad practices to avoid (from PBP and other sources) here:<br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; http://perl-begin.org/tutorials/bad-elements/<br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; Now, I&#39;ve specifically tried to make it as non-controversial as possible and <br/>&gt; avoided recommendations that are a matter of taste, and can be done this way <br/>&gt; or another.<br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; If you think all style guide / best practices / etc. are not helpful, will you <br/>&gt; accept code that:<br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; 1. Lacks all indentation?<br/><br/>Unlikely.<br/><br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; 2. Has magic numbers such as:<br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; my $n = uc($_[3]);<br/><br/>Depends on the usage. I don&#39;t have much problems with:<br/><br/> $minutes = 60 * $hours;<br/><br/>And for manual pages, due to line-length restrictions, I rather accept <br/>a numeric literal, than a descriptive name that causes the line to wrap<br/>on my terminal.<br/><br/>&gt; 3. Has comments or even identifiers in a non-English language?<br/><br/>Depends on the environment.<br/><br/>&gt; 4. Has duplicate code?<br/><br/>Maybe. I do copy-and-paste at $WORK every now and then. Sometimes, the cost<br/>of copying is less than the cost of abstracting. It&#39;s a trade-off.<br/><br/>For documentation, I&#39;m even more willing to accept duplicate code.<br/><br/>&gt; 5. Has inconsistent tabs and spaces and looks differently aligned on many tab <br/>&gt; widths?<br/><br/>Personally, I never use tabs, unless the syntax demands it (like Makefiles).<br/><br/>&gt; 6. Has non-descriptive variable names? Reportedly <br/>&gt; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_J._Bernstein uses many single-letter and <br/>&gt; double-letter identifiers in his code.<br/><br/>Certainly. $i, $n, etc, I use often. For documentation, $foo, $bar, and<br/>friends are often acceptable.<br/><br/><br/>But avoiding really bad techniques is a far cry from enforcing a certain<br/>style. Rejecting code that lacks all indentation isn&#39;t the same as changing<br/>identation in existing documentation to what someone considers the optimal<br/>indentation width.<br/><br/>To go back to your suggestions that started this long thread, I don&#39;t think<br/>any of the proposals fell into your points 1-6.<br/><br/><br/>&gt; I know none of these will be acceptible to me, because they are not a matter <br/>&gt; of taste, but rather objective measures of the internal quality of the code. <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; However, there are a lot of style debates, like which indentation style to <br/>&gt; use, or whether to do my ($self, $args) = @_; or my ($self, %args) = @_; or <br/>&gt; whether one should avoid using &quot;unless&quot; instead of of &quot;if (!)&quot; altogether <br/>&gt; (which I do), or whether one should avoid trailing conditionals (which I also <br/>&gt; avoid), etc. etc. These are still a matter of preference and mostly amoral, <br/>&gt; and are not covered in my document. <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; Now the question is which category making the code strict-safe or using <br/>&gt; lexical filehandles belongs to. People have given good arguments for both of <br/>&gt; these for many years now, so I think they belong in the things that p5p will <br/>&gt; necessitate in code examples (unless someone has a compelling argument why <br/>&gt; they are not a good idea).<br/><br/><br/>Note that lexical filehandles have been possible since October 1994, with<br/>the release of Perl 5.000. It wasn&#39;t until the release of 5.6.0 with<br/>the introduction of autovivifying that people actually started using them -<br/>before then, the extra line of code required apparently didn&#39;t offset the<br/>benefits. I refuse to believe people wrote bad code for a dozen years<br/>(counting pre-perl5 as well).<br/><br/>Do we have to document autovivifying file handles? Certainly. Do we have<br/>to show how to use lexical filehandles? Yes. Do we have to label code that<br/>uses bare file handles as bad, unwanted or outdated? No.<br/><br/>As for strictness, let me reiterate my opinion. The majority of the examples <br/>of the documentation are code fragments. For brevity reasons, it doesn&#39;t<br/>state &quot;use strict;&quot; or &quot;use warnings;&quot;. Nor does it declare a package, or<br/>starts with a she-bang line. Often, it doesn&#39;t read any data, nor writes<br/>any output. That&#39;s all assumed to be &quot;somewhere&quot;. Just as declaring used<br/>variables with &#39;my&#39;. After all, if someone wants to copy lines into his<br/>program, only he knows where scopes end or begin.<br/><br/>Now, if you have some examples where symbolic references are used (and the<br/>examples aren&#39;t about symbolic references themselves), you&#39;re less likely<br/>to get opposition from me if you propose a patch to either eliminate the<br/>symbolic reference, or a line that points out a symbolic reference is used.<br/><br/>But just blindly slapping &#39;my&#39; everywhere isn&#39;t something that gets me<br/>cheering.<br/><br/><br/>Abigail<br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2010/12/msg1025.html Mon, 06 Dec 2010 11:24:53 +0000 Re: Current Issues with perlipc.pod - should they be fixed? by Shlomi Fish On Monday 06 December 2010 19:49:44 Abigail wrote:<br/>&gt; On Mon, Dec 06, 2010 at 07:34:35PM +0200, Shlomi Fish wrote:<br/>&gt; &gt; Now I think that some of my style/best-practices suggestions are an<br/>&gt; &gt; improvement and I&#39;d like to pursue them.<br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; And I&#39;m strongly against that sentiment.<br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; I really do think p5p, and hence the documentation, should *not* have a<br/>&gt; style preference, or have some form of &quot;best practice&quot; (nor do I believe<br/>&gt; you&#39;ll find consensus on what &quot;best practice&quot; will be). Style guides,<br/>&gt; coding standards, best practices, or whatever you want to label it only<br/>&gt; gives rise to coding police, and it&#39;s only fuel to people who only answer<br/>&gt; questions on usenet or Perlmonks with &quot;well, for starters following these<br/>&gt; as these rules&quot;, regardless whether that helps answering the question<br/>&gt; or not.<br/><br/>Well, I don&#39;t frequent either Usenet or Perlmonks, but let me answer. (For the <br/>record, I help a lot on IRC and on mailing lists.) I&#39;ve collected a longish <br/>list of bad practices to avoid (from PBP and other sources) here:<br/><br/>http://perl-begin.org/tutorials/bad-elements/<br/><br/>Now, I&#39;ve specifically tried to make it as non-controversial as possible and <br/>avoided recommendations that are a matter of taste, and can be done this way <br/>or another.<br/><br/>If you think all style guide / best practices / etc. are not helpful, will you <br/>accept code that:<br/><br/>1. Lacks all indentation?<br/><br/>2. Has magic numbers such as:<br/><br/> my $n = uc($_[3]);<br/><br/>?<br/><br/>3. Has comments or even identifiers in a non-English language?<br/><br/>4. Has duplicate code?<br/><br/>5. Has inconsistent tabs and spaces and looks differently aligned on many tab <br/>widths?<br/><br/>6. Has non-descriptive variable names? Reportedly <br/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_J._Bernstein uses many single-letter and <br/>double-letter identifiers in his code.<br/><br/>---------------------<br/><br/>I know none of these will be acceptible to me, because they are not a matter <br/>of taste, but rather objective measures of the internal quality of the code. <br/><br/>However, there are a lot of style debates, like which indentation style to <br/>use, or whether to do my ($self, $args) = @_; or my ($self, %args) = @_; or <br/>whether one should avoid using &quot;unless&quot; instead of of &quot;if (!)&quot; altogether <br/>(which I do), or whether one should avoid trailing conditionals (which I also <br/>avoid), etc. etc. These are still a matter of preference and mostly amoral, <br/>and are not covered in my document. <br/><br/>Now the question is which category making the code strict-safe or using <br/>lexical filehandles belongs to. People have given good arguments for both of <br/>these for many years now, so I think they belong in the things that p5p will <br/>necessitate in code examples (unless someone has a compelling argument why <br/>they are not a good idea).<br/><br/>Regards,<br/><br/> Shlomi Fish<br/><br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; Pursue all you want. Just expect feedback which may not agree with you.<br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; Abigail<br/><br/>-- <br/>-----------------------------------------------------------------<br/>Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/<br/>Rethinking CPAN - http://shlom.in/rethinking-cpan<br/><br/>&lt;rindolf&gt; She&#39;s a hot chick. But she smokes.<br/>&lt;go|dfish&gt; She can smoke as long as she&#39;s smokin&#39;.<br/><br/>Please reply to list if it&#39;s a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .<br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2010/12/msg1024.html Mon, 06 Dec 2010 10:47:03 +0000 Re: Current Issues with perlipc.pod - should they be fixed? by demerphq On 6 December 2010 19:01, Shlomi Fish &lt;shlomif@iglu.org.il&gt; wrote: <br/>&gt; Hi Yves, <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; On Monday 06 December 2010 10:42:23 demerphq wrote: <br/>&gt;&gt; On 5 December 2010 07:54, Naveed Massjouni &lt;naveedm9@gmail.com&gt; wrote: <br/>&gt;&gt; &gt; This thread is really depressing. &nbsp;Personally, I like all of Shlomi&#39;s <br/>&gt;&gt; &gt; suggestions. &nbsp;I can&#39;t fathom why bareword global filehandles are still <br/>&gt;&gt; &gt; pervasive in the perl docs. &nbsp;But instead of the community getting to <br/>&gt;&gt; &gt; discuss the merits of the changes and then have some kind of vote, one <br/>&gt;&gt; &gt; maintainer with a big ego can just say, &quot;VETO VETO VETO ... my docs <br/>&gt;&gt; &gt; are already perfect!&quot; <br/>&gt;&gt; <br/>&gt;&gt; I think there is a difference in modifying someone elses <br/>&gt;&gt; documentation, and writing a totally new doc. I also think there is a <br/>&gt;&gt; big difference between patches to code which fix bugs or add <br/>&gt;&gt; functionality, and patches to documentation that is not actually <br/>&gt;&gt; wrong, but instead of a style no longer in fashion. To me it is a bit <br/>&gt;&gt; like suggesting that Shakespeare needs to be &quot;modernized&quot; because of <br/>&gt;&gt; the archaic English he used. <br/>&gt;&gt; <br/>&gt;&gt; However, if you, or Shlomi think you can write a better perlipc.pod <br/>&gt;&gt; from scratch, then you should do so, or any other doc. <br/>&gt;&gt; <br/>&gt;&gt; If we think it is qualitatively superior then we would probably <br/>&gt;&gt; replace the existing version. <br/>&gt;&gt; <br/>&gt;&gt; More likely we would end up with two docs. And the community would be <br/>&gt;&gt; richer for it. <br/>&gt;&gt; <br/>&gt;&gt; So I think we are right in respecting a given documents artistic <br/>&gt;&gt; rights to have their vision presented as they wished, within reason. <br/>&gt;&gt; We can always decide not to use the doc at all if we feel they are <br/>&gt;&gt; being unreasonable. I doubt you would get a consensus for such an <br/>&gt;&gt; extreme action amongst the committers though. I think we generally <br/>&gt;&gt; dont feel as strongly about these changes as you seem to. Although I <br/>&gt;&gt; respect your reasons for doing so. <br/>&gt;&gt; <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; Aren&#39;t you describing territoriality here? <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territoriality_%28nonverbal_communication%29 <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; * http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/cathedral- <br/>&gt; bazaar/ar01s11.html <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; (sorry for the second broken link). <br/> <br/>I don&#39;t know. I&#39;m not even sure that my view is rational or self consistent. <br/> <br/>I do know that I feel there is some important qualitative difference <br/>between modifying code, and modifying a stand alone document like <br/>perlipc. <br/> <br/>&gt; I&#39;m in no position to write my own perlipc.pod from scratch - I&#39;d rather build <br/>&gt; on the efforts of tchrist and other contributors. And as Aristotle noted we <br/>&gt; don&#39;t need another document with the same purpose. And I&#39;d like contributors <br/>&gt; to discuss changes to the documentation that they originated based on their <br/>&gt; merit and not &quot;veto&quot; them, just because they are territorial about their <br/>&gt; documentation. This is also because the documentation affects and reflects on <br/>&gt; the collective community of developers and users, and we are all held <br/>&gt; responsible for it. <br/> <br/>Again, I am not sure I agree. <br/> <br/>I dont feel that *all* of Toms rejections of your changes *are* due to <br/>territoriality, although I suspect a few of them might be, and that <br/>his general tone suggests he does feel that way. <br/> <br/>On the other hand I just don&#39;t agree with you on some of them. <br/> <br/>For instance using || instead of or. I prefer the latter, like you I <br/>believe, however I actually think in some important respects the other <br/>style is better. <br/> <br/>If you ONLY ever use || and always use parens on function calls then <br/>you will never get bitten by weird precedence problems like this: <br/> <br/> return $foo or $bar; <br/> <br/>which I see in code more often than I would prefer. Now, like I said, <br/>I actually prefer &#39;or&#39; style, with no parens. But I also know all the <br/>places where that can bite you, because I&#39;ve been bitten. :-) Now you <br/>want Tom to change to a style that is objectively inferior in at least <br/>one or two ways. You haven&#39;t really demonstrated to me that you <br/>understand why he prefers his style, or demonstrated to me that you <br/>have a cogent argument for using the &#39;or&#39; form beyond aesthetics. <br/> <br/>Now on some things I agree. But enough I don&#39;t agree with, or think <br/>its a dicey argument, that I think Toms opinions should be given extra <br/>consideration when we discuss them. <br/> <br/>&gt;&gt; &gt; What incentive would I or Shlomi or anyone else have to spend their <br/>&gt;&gt; &gt; time to try to improve the docs if this is how things work. <br/>&gt;&gt; <br/>&gt;&gt; We all have different incentives. I would hope that you dont feel that <br/>&gt;&gt; a predicate on your contributing is the right to change anything you <br/>&gt;&gt; wish however you wish. That is not how it works. No matter how much I <br/>&gt;&gt; wish it did sometimes. <br/>&gt;&gt; <br/>&gt;&gt; I hope you stay positive about contributing to perl, and find other <br/>&gt;&gt; subjects where you can do so. We have a lot more to look into than <br/>&gt;&gt; Tom&#39;s docs. <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; The way I see it what happened was that I wrote an email with aspects of <br/>&gt; perlipc.pod that I found lacking, and not idiomatic up to recent best <br/>&gt; practices, thcrist replying that he doesn&#39;t like any of the changes and <br/>&gt; VETOing them (without saying why the status quo was better, just by giving <br/>&gt; other irrelevant reasons), and some other people discussing why they thought <br/>&gt; what I or other people said had a relative merit and should be implemented <br/>&gt; (althugh possibly, like Abigail said, not at the utmost priority). I didn&#39;t <br/>&gt; even start patching perlipc yet (at least not after tchrist&#39;s rewrite of its <br/>&gt; original version which forced me to restart my work.). <br/>&gt; <br/>&gt; I also think that the Perl 5 documentation *should* reflect the agreed best <br/>&gt; practices (and I don&#39;t necessarily mean Damian&#39;s PBP). We had lexical <br/>&gt; filehandles since at least perl-5.6.x and everyone agrees that they are a best <br/>&gt; practice, and &quot;use strict;&quot; is also a good idea, and we encourage everybody to <br/>&gt; do &quot;use warnings;&quot; instead of &quot;-w&quot;. Therefore, we should practice what we <br/>&gt; preach, and make sure that the core docs don&#39;t unnecessarily demonstrate <br/>&gt; paradigms that have been agreed to be bad for years. <br/> <br/>Again I think you go a bit too far here. I do agree with the sentiment tho. <br/> <br/>cheers, <br/>Yves <br/> <br/> <br/>-- <br/>perl -Mre=debug -e &quot;/just|another|perl|hacker/&quot; <br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2010/12/msg1023.html Mon, 06 Dec 2010 10:47:00 +0000 Re: Current Issues with perlipc.pod - should they be fixed? by demerphq On 6 December 2010 19:25, Tom Christiansen &lt;tchrist@perl.com&gt; wrote: <br/>&gt; This witch-hunt is counter-productive and harmful. &nbsp;You should not <br/>&gt; be offended, or even surprised, if its results are not agreed to. <br/> <br/>Tom, using terms like &quot;witch-hunt&quot; is not fair - it implies there is <br/>malice intent on Shlomi&#39;s behalf which I don&#39;t think there is any <br/>evidence for. Saying stuff like that is at least as harmful to our <br/>community as you feel their efforts are, and judging by some of the <br/>comments possibly more so. <br/> <br/>I respect your right to preserve your doc&#39;s style. But if you <br/>contribute to a public project then you should not be offended, or <br/>even surprised, if people argue that it should be patched in ways <br/>which are disagreeable to you. <br/> <br/>cheers, <br/>Yves <br/> <br/> <br/> <br/>-- <br/>perl -Mre=debug -e &quot;/just|another|perl|hacker/&quot; <br/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.documentation/2010/12/msg1022.html Mon, 06 Dec 2010 10:39:25 +0000