perl.cpan.testers.discuss

perl.cpan.testers.discuss http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/ ... Copyright 1998-2012 perl.org Wed, 16 May 2012 20:44:35 +0000 ask@perl.org Re: bogus FAIL for CPAN-FindDependencies? by Dan Collins On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 10:02 AM, David Golden <xdaveg@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 9:54 AM, David Cantrell <david@cantrell.org.uk> wrote: >> http://www.cpantesters.org/cpan/report/25244182-9d04-11e1-a770-889a5de0fff0 >> >> defined(@array) is deprecated at >> /home/src/perl/repoperls/installed-perls/perl/v5.15.9/165a/lib/site_perl/5.15.9/x86_64-linux/PPI/XS.pm >> line 45. >> >> My module doesn't use PPI or XS!  And it passes on 5.16.0-RC1, so >> methinks there's something wrong with Andreas's tester here. > > PPI autoloads PPI::XS if detected. > > The unknown question is what's calling PPI... and the answer is > Parse::CPAN::Packages. > > http://deps.cpantesters.org/?module=CPAN::FindDependencies > > -- David And, amusingly, you could find out what was causing the anomalous fail in CPAN::FindDependencies by using CPAN::FindDependencies! -- Dan http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/05/msg2733.html Tue, 15 May 2012 08:14:35 +0000 Re: bogus FAIL for CPAN-FindDependencies? by David Golden On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 9:54 AM, David Cantrell <david@cantrell.org.uk> wrote: > http://www.cpantesters.org/cpan/report/25244182-9d04-11e1-a770-889a5de0fff0 > > defined(@array) is deprecated at > /home/src/perl/repoperls/installed-perls/perl/v5.15.9/165a/lib/site_perl/5.15.9/x86_64-linux/PPI/XS.pm > line 45. > > My module doesn't use PPI or XS!  And it passes on 5.16.0-RC1, so > methinks there's something wrong with Andreas's tester here. PPI autoloads PPI::XS if detected. The unknown question is what's calling PPI... and the answer is Parse::CPAN::Packages. http://deps.cpantesters.org/?module=CPAN::FindDependencies -- David http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/05/msg2732.html Tue, 15 May 2012 07:03:14 +0000 bogus FAIL for CPAN-FindDependencies? by David Cantrell http://www.cpantesters.org/cpan/report/25244182-9d04-11e1-a770-889a5de0fff0 defined(@array) is deprecated at /home/src/perl/repoperls/installed-perls/perl/v5.15.9/165a/lib/site_perl/5.15.9/x86_64-linux/PPI/XS.pm line 45. My module doesn't use PPI or XS! And it passes on 5.16.0-RC1, so methinks there's something wrong with Andreas's tester here. -- David Cantrell | Minister for Arbitrary Justice PLEASE NOTE: This message was meant to offend everyone equally, regardless of race, creed, sexual orientation, politics, choice of beer, operating system, mode of transport, or their editor. http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/05/msg2731.html Tue, 15 May 2012 06:54:26 +0000 Re: Outdated reports by Barbie On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 03:09:05AM -0700, Serguei Trouchelle wrote: > Hi Barbie, > > I've received a summary report on May 14, but links to actual reports are two months old. > Can you take a look at this? The message is attached. It's because the reports have only just been parsed into the cpanstats system. Amazon's SimpleDB is too simple for our needs (hence why we're moving to MongoDB), and it's search results have left huge gaps in the database. As such over the last week I have been running scripts to find all the missing reports. In the short term, there are going to be a few summary reports like this, which is unavoidable, but in the longer term, it will mean that we have a better picture of the reporting for each module. In the even longer term, I will be running checks much more frequently to catch any gaps in the search results. Ultimately though once we move to MongoDB, we'll have a much more consistent data set returned. Cheers, Barbie. -- Birmingham Perl Mongers <http://birmingham.pm.org> Memoirs Of A Roadie <http://barbie.missbarbell.co.uk> CPAN Testers Blog <http://blog.cpantesters.org> YAPC Conference Surveys <http://yapc-surveys.org> Ark Appreciation Pages <http://ark.eology.org> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/05/msg2730.html Mon, 14 May 2012 08:37:22 +0000 Outdated reports by Serguei Trouchelle Hi Barbie, I've received a summary report on May 14, but links to actual reports are two months old. Can you take a look at this? The message is attached. -- S.T. http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/05/msg2729.html Mon, 14 May 2012 03:09:50 +0000 Re: www.cpantesters.org status excellent (really?) by Barbie On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 09:29:28AM -0400, chm wrote: > The CPAN Testers Reports web site shows the > status as EXCELLENT but no test reports from > a PDL developers release yesterday have made > it through. Because they haven't been processed yet :) Since finding some major holes in the report lists, I have been regenerating the searches for missing reports. I'm currently working through the last 10 months, stopping every few months to process current reports. I've since found several thousand missing reports, which explains why several people are not seeing all their reports. Fear not all reports will get processed. > - As mentioned, the status is listed as EXCELLENT > at http://www.cpantesters.org/ but the full page > shows things pretty far behind today's date: You misunderstand the reference to EXCELLENT. That purely refers to the number of outstanding number of requests in the queue. > - Is there a better way to get access to current > reports other than http://www.cpantesters.org or > is there somewhere other than CPAN-Testers-Discuss > to report and resolve problems? Nope this is place. As mentioned previously, please wait patiently for reports to filter through. While we aim to be as near real time, on occasions, such as this major re-analysis, it can mean that the latest reports don't get processed straight-away. Please wait at least 48 hours for reports to filter through. Cheers, Barbie. -- Birmingham Perl Mongers <http://birmingham.pm.org> Memoirs Of A Roadie <http://barbie.missbarbell.co.uk> CPAN Testers Blog <http://blog.cpantesters.org> YAPC Conference Surveys <http://yapc-surveys.org> Ark Appreciation Pages <http://ark.eology.org> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/05/msg2728.html Sun, 13 May 2012 15:08:10 +0000 www.cpantesters.org status excellent (really?) by chm The CPAN Testers Reports web site shows the status as EXCELLENT but no test reports from a PDL developers release yesterday have made it through. We're trying to vet a PDL release to address some issues with the coming perl 5.16 release and were hoping for CPAN Testers reports for that. Some observations/questions: - http://www.cpantesters.org/recent.html has a report from 2011. If this is not being updated, I suggest removing the link. - As mentioned, the status is listed as EXCELLENT at http://www.cpantesters.org/ but the full page shows things pretty far behind today's date: > Status EXCELLENT > Most recent report 2012-03-01 00:16:00 (21895712) > Time of oldest page request 2012-05-09 10:48:44 > Total page requests 10099 > Total unique page requests 4510 - CPAN Testers Reports has been a large part of the reason we've been able to improve the robustness and portability of PDL as it allows us to find and debug (sort of) problems on platforms that our PDL developers do not have access to. Thanks! - Is there a better way to get access to current reports other than http://www.cpantesters.org or is there somewhere other than CPAN-Testers-Discuss to report and resolve problems? Thanks much, Chris http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/05/msg2727.html Sun, 13 May 2012 06:29:30 +0000 Failing dependencies for Wx by Mark Dootson Dear Testers My releases of Wx seem to fail for many testers because the dependency Alien::wxWidgets is in, for example, /home/cpan/pit/bare/conf/perl-5.14.2/.cpanplus/5.14.2/build/Alien-wxWidgets-0.59/blib/lib /home/cpan/pit/bare/conf/perl-5.14.2/.cpanplus/5.14.2/build/Alien-wxWidgets-0.59/blib/arch For many install situations (it varies depending on what wxWidgets libs are already installed on the machine) this cannot work. Alien::wxWidgets must be installed to its installed location, and the above blib/lib and blib/arch directories cannot preceed the installed location in @INC during the build. in my EUMM Makefile, what combination of PREREQ_PM and META_ADD => configure_requires build_requires requires should I use? Or is this something I'll have to sort out in Alien::wxWidgets? Many thanks Mark Dootson http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/05/msg2726.html Sun, 13 May 2012 01:08:14 +0000 Test::Builder 1.5.0 alpha 5 released by Michael G Schwern The fifth alpha for Test::Builder 1.5 has been released. It contains work from Matthew Horsfall, Peter Rabbitson, geistteufel, Karen Etheridge, Michael Schwern and others. It primarily addresses threading issues and regressions discovered via testing CPAN modules. https://metacpan.org/release/MSCHWERN/Test-Simple-1.005000_005/ https://github.com/schwern/test-more/ Please report any bugs or regressions in your CPAN modules at https://github.com/schwern/test-more/issues We very much want to hear about broken CPAN modules, CPAN is a very good test suite. Smokers, please load your alpha smokers with this new version. 1.005000_005 Thu Apr 26 15:23:25 PDT 2012 New Features * cmp_ok() will error when used with something which is not a comparison operator, including =, += and the like. [github 141] Bug Fixes * Using a reference as a test name works again. [github #264] * Protected against Test::More accidentally overwriting $! [github #268] [github #266] * Restored the behavior of a fork, it will not issue its own plan, making testing with fork easier. * Test::Builder->name() has been restored. [github #220] (Matthew Horsfall) * TB2::BlackHole no longer tries to AUTOLOAD its destructor. [github #280] (Peter Rabbitson) * Threads work on 5.12 and 5.10 again. (Peter Rabbitson) Doc Fixes * use_ok() has been discouraged and de-emphasized as a general replacement for `use` in tests. [github #288] Incompatible Changes with previous alphas * TB2::Counter has been removed [github 119] * The test counter has been moved from the TAP formatter into TB2::History [github 190] * TB2::TestState is no longer a complete subclass of TB2::EventCoordinator, but delegates most EC methods. The isa/can trickery caused threading issues. [github 291] * TB2::TestState->current_coordinator is now TB2::TestState->ec. * use_ok() will no longer apply lexical pragams. The incompatibilities and extra complexity is not worth the marginal use. [github #287] 1.005000_004 Sun Mar 25 15:01:49 BST 2012 Bug Fixes * Fix the thread crashes occurring with 5.12 and down. [github 261] Test Fixes * t/History/child_process.t was failing, the forked processes were improperly coordinated. Incompatible Changes with previous alphas * coordinate_threads() has been removed. It had no use case and was complicating threads which are quite complicated enough thank you. -- 31. Not allowed to let sock puppets take responsibility for any of my actions. -- The 213 Things Skippy Is No Longer Allowed To Do In The U.S. Army http://skippyslist.com/list/ http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/04/msg2725.html Thu, 26 Apr 2012 15:46:28 +0000 Re: disappeared test reports by Barbie Hi Val, For me to track these, I need the GUID of the reports. Vaguely looking for reports for the distributions you list is time consuming. Please note that I won't be able to investigate this today as the CPAN Testers Reports server will be down for an upgrade. Also note that there is a known problem that SimpleDB doesn't always return all the reports for a requested period. I have been writing code to correct this, but haven't had the chance to run through them just yet. Cheers, Barbie. On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 10:34:59AM -0400, val wrote: > Hi, > > Not sure if it is a bug or feature. Let me describe the sequence first. > 2012-04-02. I installed and set up reporting tool (for CPANPLUS if it > matters). For testing the correctness of the set up I updated the > modules > o > 3 2.40 2.004005 Chart::Lines CHARTGRP > 4 0.73 0.74 DateTime DROLSKY > > Almost immediately I saw report lines in the log tail. Few hours > after that I saw actual reports on the page with matrix and references > to actual report bodies. > So far everything was good. > > > But few days later I noticed that my new reports are visible in the > log tail, but they don't make it to the page with references to actual > report bodies. > For example: > 2012-04-03 > 1 1.45 1.46 DateTime::TimeZone DROLSKY > 2 1.45 1.46 Net::SSLeay MIKEM > 3 2.32 2.33 Safe RGARCIA > 4 2.0402 2.0403 oose DOY > > 2012-04-05 > 1 0.18 0.19 Class::Load DOY > 2 1.46 1.47 Net::SSLeay MIKEM > > 2012-04-09 > 1 1.62 1.64 IO::Socket::SSL SULLR > 2 0.06 0.07 PerlIO::via::QuotedPrint ELIZABETH > > So I got confused a little. It can be a bug (reports go only halfway > of the process) or feature (my reports aren't necessary because of > some criteria). > Please advise. > > > With best regards, > Valery Kalesnik > -- Birmingham Perl Mongers <http://birmingham.pm.org> Memoirs Of A Roadie <http://barbie.missbarbell.co.uk> CPAN Testers Blog <http://blog.cpantesters.org> YAPC Conference Surveys <http://yapc-surveys.org> Ark Appreciation Pages <http://ark.eology.org> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/04/msg2724.html Thu, 12 Apr 2012 00:26:49 +0000 disappeared test reports by val Hi, Not sure if it is a bug or feature. Let me describe the sequence first. 2012-04-02. I installed and set up reporting tool (for CPANPLUS if it matters). For testing the correctness of the set up I updated the modules o 3 2.40 2.004005 Chart::Lines CHARTGRP 4 0.73 0.74 DateTime DROLSKY Almost immediately I saw report lines in the log tail. Few hours after that I saw actual reports on the page with matrix and references to actual report bodies. So far everything was good. But few days later I noticed that my new reports are visible in the log tail, but they don't make it to the page with references to actual report bodies. For example: 2012-04-03 1 1.45 1.46 DateTime::TimeZone DROLSKY 2 1.45 1.46 Net::SSLeay MIKEM 3 2.32 2.33 Safe RGARCIA 4 2.0402 2.0403 oose DOY 2012-04-05 1 0.18 0.19 Class::Load DOY 2 1.46 1.47 Net::SSLeay MIKEM 2012-04-09 1 1.62 1.64 IO::Socket::SSL SULLR 2 0.06 0.07 PerlIO::via::QuotedPrint ELIZABETH So I got confused a little. It can be a bug (reports go only halfway of the process) or feature (my reports aren't necessary because of some criteria). Please advise. With best regards, Valery Kalesnik http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/04/msg2723.html Wed, 11 Apr 2012 05:53:58 +0000 Re: Please test Gtk2 with bleadperl! by andreas.koenig.7os6VVqR >>>>> On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 15:07:31 +0200, Slaven Rezic <slaven@rezic.de> said: >> I managed to produce a PASS with debian squeeze and a FAIL with debian >> sid. Bleadperl was in both cases v5.15.9-123-gbd9cbc4. > With or without a DISPLAY in both cases? Gtk2 works fine without a > DISPLAY, as most tests are skipped. My bad. One was with, one without. Here is my current summary with all four combinations: DISPLAY with without squeeze FAIL PASS sid FAIL PASS -- andreas http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/04/msg2722.html Mon, 09 Apr 2012 10:43:42 +0000 Re: Please test Gtk2 with bleadperl! by Slaven Rezic andreas.koenig.7os6VVqR@franz.ak.mind.de (Andreas J. Koenig) writes: >>>>>> On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 20:45:03 +0200, Slaven Rezic <slaven@rezic.de> said: > > > Hello, > > looking at http://matrix.cpantesters.org/?dist=Gtk2 there's obviously a > > lack of reports for Gtk2 with perl 5.15.9 or bleadperl (currently I see > > only one report by me). It would be good to have more test reports for > > Gtk2 here to be sure that there was no recent change to bleadperl > > breaking this module. > > I managed to produce a PASS with debian squeeze and a FAIL with debian > sid. Bleadperl was in both cases v5.15.9-123-gbd9cbc4. With or without a DISPLAY in both cases? Gtk2 works fine without a DISPLAY, as most tests are skipped. Regards, Slaven -- Slaven Rezic - slaven <at> rezic <dot> de Berlin Perl Mongers - http://berlin.pm.org http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/04/msg2721.html Mon, 09 Apr 2012 06:12:06 +0000 Re: Please test Gtk2 with bleadperl! by andreas.koenig.7os6VVqR >>>>> On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 20:45:03 +0200, Slaven Rezic <slaven@rezic.de> said: > Hello, > looking at http://matrix.cpantesters.org/?dist=Gtk2 there's obviously a > lack of reports for Gtk2 with perl 5.15.9 or bleadperl (currently I see > only one report by me). It would be good to have more test reports for > Gtk2 here to be sure that there was no recent change to bleadperl > breaking this module. I managed to produce a PASS with debian squeeze and a FAIL with debian sid. Bleadperl was in both cases v5.15.9-123-gbd9cbc4. -- andreas http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/04/msg2720.html Mon, 09 Apr 2012 02:14:18 +0000 Re: Please test Gtk2 with bleadperl! by Shlomi Fish Hi, On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 20:45:03 +0200 Slaven Rezic <slaven@rezic.de> wrote: > Hello, > > looking at http://matrix.cpantesters.org/?dist=Gtk2 there's obviously a > lack of reports for Gtk2 with perl 5.15.9 or bleadperl (currently I see > only one report by me). It would be good to have more test reports for > Gtk2 here to be sure that there was no recent change to bleadperl > breaking this module. > I'm getting this [QUOTE] Test Summary Report ------------------- t/01.GtkWindow.t (Wstat: 6 Tests: 120 Failed: 0) Non-zero wait status: 6 t/Gdk.t (Wstat: 11 Tests: 17 Failed: 0) Non-zero wait status: 11 t/GdkCairo.t (Wstat: 6 Tests: 6 Failed: 0) Non-zero wait status: 6 t/GdkColor.t (Wstat: 6 Tests: 18 Failed: 0) Non-zero wait status: 6 t/GdkDisplay.t (Wstat: 6 Tests: 24 Failed: 0) Non-zero wait status: 6 t/GdkDrawable.t (Wstat: 11 Tests: 15 Failed: 0) Non-zero wait status: 11 t/GdkEvent.t (Wstat: 6 Tests: 123 Failed: 0) Non-zero wait status: 6 t/GdkGC.t (Wstat: 6 Tests: 35 Failed: 0) Non-zero wait status: 6 t/GdkPango.t (Wstat: 6 Tests: 14 Failed: 0) Non-zero wait status: 6 t/GdkPixmap.t (Wstat: 11 Tests: 6 Failed: 0) Non-zero wait status: 11 t/GdkProperty.t (Wstat: 11 Tests: 49 Failed: 0) Non-zero wait status: 11 t/GdkSelection.t (Wstat: 11 Tests: 20 Failed: 0) Non-zero wait status: 11 t/GdkVisual.t (Wstat: 6 Tests: 32 Failed: 0) Non-zero wait status: 6 t/GdkWindow.t (Wstat: 6 Tests: 58 Failed: 0) Non-zero wait status: 6 t/GdkX11.t (Wstat: 6 Tests: 14 Failed: 0) Non-zero wait status: 6 t/GtkAboutDialog.t (Wstat: 0 Tests: 38 Failed: 4) Failed tests: 1-4 Parse errors: Tests out of sequence. Found (1) but expected (35) Tests out of sequence. Found (2) but expected (36) Tests out of sequence. Found (3) but expected (37) Tests out of sequence. Found (4) but expected (38) Bad plan. You planned 34 tests but ran 38. t/GtkDialog.t (Wstat: 11 Tests: 33 Failed: 0) Non-zero wait status: 11 t/GtkIconTheme.t (Wstat: 6 Tests: 17 Failed: 0) Non-zero wait status: 6 t/GtkInvisible.t (Wstat: 6 Tests: 3 Failed: 0) Non-zero wait status: 6 t/GtkMenu.t (Wstat: 6 Tests: 66 Failed: 0) Non-zero wait status: 6 t/GtkMessageDialog.t (Wstat: 11 Tests: 8 Failed: 0) Non-zero wait status: 11 t/GtkRecentChooserDialog.t (Wstat: 11 Tests: 14 Failed: 0) Non-zero wait status: 11 t/GtkRecentManager.t (Wstat: 6 Tests: 36 Failed: 0) Non-zero wait status: 6 t/GtkSocket-GtkPlug.t (Wstat: 256 Tests: 4 Failed: 0) Non-zero exit status: 1 Parse errors: Bad plan. You planned 12 tests but ran 4. t/GtkStatusIcon.t (Wstat: 6 Tests: 37 Failed: 0) Non-zero wait status: 6 t/GtkWidget.t (Wstat: 11 Tests: 158 Failed: 0) Non-zero wait status: 11 t/PangoFontMap.t (Wstat: 11 Tests: 4 Failed: 0) Non-zero wait status: 11 t/PangoRenderer.t (Wstat: 6 Tests: 7 Failed: 0) Non-zero wait status: 6 Files=229, Tests=5076, 121 wallclock secs ( 1.09 usr 0.17 sys + 15.75 cusr 3.75 csys = 20.76 CPU) Result: FAIL Failed 28/229 test programs. 4/5076 subtests failed. make: *** [test_dynamic] Error 255 XAOC/Gtk2-1.242.tar.gz /usr/bin/make test -- NOT OK //hint// to see the cpan-testers results for installing this module, try: reports XAOC/Gtk2-1.242.tar.gz Running make install make test had returned bad status, won't install without force Failed during this command: XAOC/Gtk2-1.242.tar.gz : make_test NO cpan[2]> [/QUOTE] Regards, Shlomi Fish -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ "The Human Hacking Field Guide" - http://shlom.in/hhfg COBOL is the old Java. Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply . http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/04/msg2719.html Sun, 08 Apr 2012 12:55:03 +0000 Please test Gtk2 with bleadperl! by Slaven Rezic Hello, looking at http://matrix.cpantesters.org/?dist=Gtk2 there's obviously a lack of reports for Gtk2 with perl 5.15.9 or bleadperl (currently I see only one report by me). It would be good to have more test reports for Gtk2 here to be sure that there was no recent change to bleadperl breaking this module. Regards, Slaven -- Slaven Rezic - slaven <at> rezic <dot> de Berlin Perl Mongers - http://berlin.pm.org http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/04/msg2718.html Sun, 08 Apr 2012 11:45:43 +0000 CPAN Testers - Maintenance Notice by Barbie Hi folks, Please note that the CPAN Testers server will be offline from 10:00 BST on Thursday 12th April. We hope to be back online as soon as possible, as soon as the upgrade has been verified. See the blog for further details: http://blog.cpantesters.org/diary/142 Cheers, Barbie. -- Birmingham Perl Mongers <http://birmingham.pm.org> Memoirs Of A Roadie <http://barbie.missbarbell.co.uk> CPAN Testers Blog <http://blog.cpantesters.org> YAPC Conference Surveys <http://yapc-surveys.org> Ark Appreciation Pages <http://ark.eology.org> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/04/msg2717.html Thu, 05 Apr 2012 13:59:38 +0000 Re: Current CPAN indexing problems by andreas.koenig.7os6VVqR >>>>> On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 15:26:01 +0100, David Cantrell <david@cantrell.org.uk> said: > On Tue, Apr 03, 2012 at 02:36:45PM +0100, Chris 'BinGOs' Williams wrote: >> This morning Chris Prather uploaded http://metacpan.org/release/PERIGRIN/Crixa-0.01 >> >> which had a local::lib directory which got indexed and caused this: >> >> http://pasta.test-smoke.org/205 >> >> The current state is http://pasta.test-smoke.org/207 > I see that Crixa-0.02 is now up, although I guess that some mirrors will > have a broken 02packages file for a day or so. Dave Rolsky has uploaded a new Class::Load and I have removed Crixa-0.01 from CPAN. If your 02packages file has a header Last-Updated: Tue, 03 Apr 2012 18:12:53 GMT or later, the problems from Crixa-0.01 are extinguished. -- andreas http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/04/msg2716.html Tue, 03 Apr 2012 12:22:08 +0000 Re: Current CPAN indexing problems by Chris 'BinGOs' Williams On Tue, Apr 03, 2012 at 03:26:01PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: > On Tue, Apr 03, 2012 at 02:36:45PM +0100, Chris 'BinGOs' Williams wrote: > > > This morning Chris Prather uploaded http://metacpan.org/release/PERIGRIN/Crixa-0.01 > > > > which had a local::lib directory which got indexed and caused this: > > > > http://pasta.test-smoke.org/205 > > > > The current state is http://pasta.test-smoke.org/207 > > I see that Crixa-0.02 is now up, although I guess that some mirrors will > have a broken 02packages file for a day or so. > All back to normal now. Had a slight drama queen moment >:) -- Chris Williams aka BinGOs PGP ID 0x4658671F http://www.gumbynet.org.uk ========================== http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/04/msg2715.html Tue, 03 Apr 2012 12:07:35 +0000 Re: Current CPAN indexing problems by David Cantrell On Tue, Apr 03, 2012 at 02:36:45PM +0100, Chris 'BinGOs' Williams wrote: > This morning Chris Prather uploaded http://metacpan.org/release/PERIGRIN/Crixa-0.01 > > which had a local::lib directory which got indexed and caused this: > > http://pasta.test-smoke.org/205 > > The current state is http://pasta.test-smoke.org/207 I see that Crixa-0.02 is now up, although I guess that some mirrors will have a broken 02packages file for a day or so. -- David Cantrell | Enforcer, South London Linguistic Massive I'm in retox http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/04/msg2714.html Tue, 03 Apr 2012 07:26:11 +0000 Current CPAN indexing problems by Chris 'BinGOs' Williams This morning Chris Prather uploaded http://metacpan.org/release/PERIGRIN/Crixa-0.01 which had a local::lib directory which got indexed and caused this: http://pasta.test-smoke.org/205 The current state is http://pasta.test-smoke.org/207 after DOY uploaded a new release of Moose. unfortunately that Class::Load is still indexed wrong. Until that is fixed, I am shutting down my smokers as they come up for rotation. Cheers, -- Chris Williams aka BinGOs PGP ID 0x4658671F http://www.gumbynet.org.uk ========================== http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/04/msg2713.html Tue, 03 Apr 2012 06:37:00 +0000 Re: CPAN-testers database knackered? by David Golden On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Aristotle Pagaltzis <pagaltzis@gmx.de> wrote: > Yes. Isn’t that just what you get from SimpleDB, though? That would be > why I thought KC an option. SimpleDB offer complex queries. And you pay for all the IO and CPU they use, too, which is why it's getting expensive when cranking through our report volume. Slowing down how often Barbie's server queries metabase for updates cut the monthly bills by hundreds of dollars a month. FWIW, I'm convinced this is part of Amazon's business model. It all seems so cheap and easy, but once you put any real volume into it, the nickels and dimes for usage start adding up. Another example: ever notice how often Amazon recommends making EBS snapshots in their literature? Every idle EBS volume gets charged at their usual price/gig. Back up daily and don't have a really good purge system in place and your storage costs go up 100x or more very quickly! -- David http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/03/msg2712.html Tue, 13 Mar 2012 11:44:38 +0000 Re: CPAN-testers database knackered? by Aristotle Pagaltzis * David Golden <xdaveg@gmail.com> [2012-03-13 18:00]: > I've asked hard questions about some of the stories and talked to > CTO's for a half dozen companies that use it about their > positive/negative experiences. I haven't seen any real roadblocks. OK. > > Have you evaluated Kyoto Cabinet? <http://fallabs.com/kyotocabinet/> > > It's not really sufficient because it's only key/value store (as > I understand it). Yes. Isn’t that just what you get from SimpleDB, though? That would be why I thought KC an option. Regards, -- Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/03/msg2711.html Tue, 13 Mar 2012 11:00:06 +0000 Re: CPAN-testers database knackered? by David Golden On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 7:19 AM, David Cantrell <david@cantrell.org.uk> wrote: > In terms of what the API (or the MongoDB thing) looks like, to cut down > on the traffic, CPANdeps can live with just summaries of > dist/distversion/perlversion/os/state, and doesn't need the report > bodies.  Report bodies should probably be available as a separate > object. That's exactly the way Metabase is designed. "index data" lives in one DB and "bodies" live in another. Currently, that's S3 for bodies and SimpleDB for index data. Step 1 is moving from SimpleDB to MongoDB. Maybe we'll eventually also migrate away from S3, but that's not as big a priority since it's pretty static and cheap. Queries on SimpleDB have been driving up cost to the point where it's insane to stay on it much longer. So setting up slave MongoDB instances would replicate the index data, which is pretty much what you want. (Probably more than you need, but it might be easier/faster than getting the smaller data set.) -- David http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/03/msg2710.html Tue, 13 Mar 2012 10:00:45 +0000 Re: CPAN-testers database knackered? by David Golden On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 10:58 AM, Aristotle Pagaltzis <pagaltzis@gmx.de> wrote: > * David Golden <xdaveg@gmail.com> [2012-03-12 20:20]: >> MongoDB is the leading candidate to replace Amazon's SimpleDB > > I hope that works out if you try it. You have heard the stories? > <http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=FD3xe6Jt> > <http://blog.schmichael.com/2011/11/05/failing-with-mongodb/> Yes, I've heard the stories. Fortunately 10gen is here in NYC and I've been very impressed with their people and had some candid conversations about the stories as well. I've asked hard questions about some of the stories and talked to CTO's for a half dozen companies that use it about their positive/negative experiences. I haven't seen any real roadblocks. Like most things, if you know what you're doing and aren't stupid (e.g. trying to shard when you're already at 100% resource utilization, choosing the wrong shard key), it works pretty well. In my own testing vs sqlite and postgres, MongoDB scaled writes (single process) much better. In a sharded configuration, it should be lovely. > Have you evaluated Kyoto Cabinet? <http://fallabs.com/kyotocabinet/> It's not really sufficient because it's only key/value store (as I understand it). MongoDB gives a query interface that isn't SQL, but still is multi-dimensional. Plus it allows multiple indexes, which is really useful for us since people want queries on time (for recent reports) and queries on distname/version and we can make both cheap. The CT usage pattern is write-heavy, with reads mostly against the most recent reports. That's really good for keeping the relevant index/data pages in memory, which is ideal with MongoDB. -- David http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/03/msg2709.html Tue, 13 Mar 2012 09:57:36 +0000 Re: CPAN-testers database knackered? by Aristotle Pagaltzis * David Golden <xdaveg@gmail.com> [2012-03-12 20:20]: > MongoDB is the leading candidate to replace Amazon's SimpleDB I hope that works out if you try it. You have heard the stories? <http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=FD3xe6Jt> <http://blog.schmichael.com/2011/11/05/failing-with-mongodb/> Have you evaluated Kyoto Cabinet? <http://fallabs.com/kyotocabinet/> (Perl bindings POD at <http://fallabs.com/kyotocabinet/perldoc/>.) http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/03/msg2708.html Tue, 13 Mar 2012 07:58:34 +0000 Re: CPAN-testers database knackered? by David Cantrell On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 03:14:31PM -0400, David Golden wrote: > On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 2:49 AM, Pedro Melo <melo@simplicidade.org> wrote: > > hmms... Maybe a git repo? It has the advantage that syncing since the > > last time would be fast, and the pack files are compressed. OTOH, > > unless we have per-dist repos it will get very big. > I suggest Barbie and I (and others) talk this out in Paris at the end > of the month. > > MongoDB is the leading candidate to replace Amazon's SimpleDB as the > indexed part of Metabase storage and one (crazy?) option is to set up > people who need it (cpandeps, analysis) with replicated slaves > (without allowing external read-access -- essentially backup slaves). > Then it would pretty much stay up to date automatically and be fast to > query locally. This would be good. > Another option is to finally get the web query API opened up to the > public so people could pull their own datasets from Metabase on a > regular basis. This would be better from my PoV, as it means I have to run less software. But my laziness really shouldn't be a high priority! OTOH, an API that is open to everyone would be great. In terms of what the API (or the MongoDB thing) looks like, to cut down on the traffic, CPANdeps can live with just summaries of dist/distversion/perlversion/os/state, and doesn't need the report bodies. Report bodies should probably be available as a separate object. > But as I said, I'd rather we hammer this out in person rather than do > something hasty and have yet another patchwork solution. Yes. -- David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david Eye have a spelling chequer / It came with my pea sea It planely marques four my revue / Miss Steaks eye kin knot sea. Eye strike a quay and type a word / And weight for it to say Weather eye am wrong oar write / It shows me strait a weigh. http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/03/msg2707.html Tue, 13 Mar 2012 04:19:31 +0000 Re: Test complains about identical strings not being identical? by Slaven Rezic Gabor Szabo <gabor@szabgab.com> writes: > On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 11:03 PM, Gabor Szabo <gabor@szabgab.com> wrote: >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 7:10 PM, Andreas J. Koenig >> <andreas.koenig.7os6VVqR@franz.ak.mind.de> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 13:50:08 +0200, Gabor Szabo <gabor@szabgab.com> said: >>> >>>  > Could someone (especially BinGOs), please take a look at this report: >>>  > http://www.cpantesters.org/cpan/report/8396ba36-65c0-11e1-9d6f-f6dbfa7543f5 >>> >>>  > It seems to complain about two identical strings not being the same. >>> >>>  > Any idea why would that happen? >>> >>> ^M >>> >>> You must download the report, not look at it in the browser. >> >> thanks. >> >> What I still don't understand is where have those ^M-es got there? >> And why only on some systems? >> >> After downloading the report I saw that on some lines there were ^M in both >> the expected and the actual, while on other lines only one of the >> versions had the ^M >> characters. >> >> Gabor > > > This is even weirder now. > I got this report (on a new release of the same package) > http://www.cpantesters.org/cpan/report/d26facd0-6b83-11e1-b4a3-91c8ad4f1d97 > > after > $ wget http://www.cpantesters.org/cpan/report/d26facd0-6b83-11e1-b4a3-91c8ad4f1d97 > opening the file with > $ vim d26facd0-6b83-11e1-b4a3-91c8ad4f1d97 > I don't see any ^M at all in this one. > > In the other one at least I could see the ^M-s. > After removing the other parts of the mail the two strings seem to be the > same (using diff). Maybe the difference is the reporting system (CPANPLUS-based vs. CPAN::Reporter)? Maybe one is preserving the ^M, the other isn't? Anyway, I put a Test::Differences::eq_or_diff check into the failing test script and it's indeed ^M being problematic here: # +----+-----------------------------------------------------------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+ # | Elt|Got |Expected | # +----+-----------------------------------------------------------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+ # | 0|bless( { |bless( { | # * 1| Data => 'Opening: I am ready to send you updates.\r\n | Data => 'Opening: I am ready to send you updates.\n * # * 2|\r\n |\n * # * 3|-----------------------------------------------------------\r\n |-----------------------------------------------------------\n * # * 4|CONFIRM BY VISITING THE LINK BELOW:\r\n |CONFIRM BY VISITING THE LINK BELOW:\n * # * 5|\r\n |\n * # * 6|<% url %>\r\n |<% url %>\n * # * 7|\r\n |\n * # * 8|Click the link above to give me permission to send you\r\n |Click the link above to give me permission to send you\n * # * 9|information. It\'s fast and easy! If you cannot click the\r\n |information. It\'s fast and easy! If you cannot click the\n * # * 10|full URL above, please copy and paste it into your web\r\n |full URL above, please copy and paste it into your web\n * # * 11|browser.\r\n |browser.\n * # * 12|\r\n |\n * # * 13|-----------------------------------------------------------\r\n |-----------------------------------------------------------\n * # * 14|If you do not want to confirm, simply ignore this message.\r\n |If you do not want to confirm, simply ignore this message.\n * # * 15|\r\n |\n * # * 16|Thank You Again!\r\n |Thank You Again!\n * # * 17|\r\n |\n * # | 18|', |', | # | 19| From => 'admin1@dwimmer.org', | From => 'admin1@dwimmer.org', | # | 20| Subject => 'Test list registration - email validation', | Subject => 'Test list registration - email validation', | # | 21| To => 't1@dwimmer.org' | To => 't1@dwimmer.org' | # | 22|}, 'MIME::Lite' ) |}, 'MIME::Lite' ) | # +----+-----------------------------------------------------------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+ Regards, Slaven -- Slaven Rezic - slaven <at> rezic <dot> de Berlin Perl Mongers - http://berlin.pm.org http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/03/msg2706.html Mon, 12 Mar 2012 15:32:21 +0000 Re: CPAN-testers database knackered? by David Golden On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 2:49 AM, Pedro Melo <melo@simplicidade.org> wrote: > hmms... Maybe a git repo? It has the advantage that syncing since the > last time would be fast, and the pack files are compressed. OTOH, > unless we have per-dist repos it will get very big. I suggest Barbie and I (and others) talk this out in Paris at the end of the month. MongoDB is the leading candidate to replace Amazon's SimpleDB as the indexed part of Metabase storage and one (crazy?) option is to set up people who need it (cpandeps, analysis) with replicated slaves (without allowing external read-access -- essentially backup slaves). Then it would pretty much stay up to date automatically and be fast to query locally. Another option is to finally get the web query API opened up to the public so people could pull their own datasets from Metabase on a regular basis. But as I said, I'd rather we hammer this out in person rather than do something hasty and have yet another patchwork solution. -- David http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/03/msg2705.html Mon, 12 Mar 2012 12:15:10 +0000 Re: CPAN-testers database knackered? by Pedro Melo Hi, On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 9:26 AM, Barbie <barbie@missbarbell.co.uk> wrote: > This is why I want to look at an alternative method of getting at the > data. I'm going to look at creating an API that returns the records in > CSV or JSON format for a given range of IDs. This will allow you to > maintain your own DB as you wish, rather than have to continually > download several Gig repeatedly. hmms... Maybe a git repo? It has the advantage that syncing since the last time would be fast, and the pack files are compressed. OTOH, unless we have per-dist repos it will get very big. Bye, -- Pedro Melo @pedromelo http://www.simplicidade.org/ http://about.me/melo xmpp:melo@simplicidade.org mailto:melo@simplicidade.org http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/03/msg2704.html Sun, 11 Mar 2012 23:50:26 +0000 Re: Test complains about identical strings not being identical? by andreas.koenig.7os6VVqR >>>>> On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 13:52:43 -0400, David Golden <xdaveg@gmail.com> said: > On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Andreas J. Koenig > <andreas.koenig.7os6VVqR@franz.ak.mind.de> wrote: >> You must download the report, not look at it in the browser. > True, though I wonder if we might find a way to "fix" that and > show/highlight trailing whitespace in the browser. I'd be inclined to suggest the use of more sophisticated testing tools on the developer's end, like Test::LongString, Test::Differences, Test::HexDifferences, etc. -- andreas http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/03/msg2703.html Sun, 11 Mar 2012 22:41:13 +0000 Re: Test complains about identical strings not being identical? by Gabor Szabo On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 11:03 PM, Gabor Szabo <gabor@szabgab.com> wrote: > On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 7:10 PM, Andreas J. Koenig > <andreas.koenig.7os6VVqR@franz.ak.mind.de> wrote: >>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 13:50:08 +0200, Gabor Szabo <gabor@szabgab.com> said: >> >>  > Could someone (especially BinGOs), please take a look at this report: >>  > http://www.cpantesters.org/cpan/report/8396ba36-65c0-11e1-9d6f-f6dbfa7543f5 >> >>  > It seems to complain about two identical strings not being the same. >> >>  > Any idea why would that happen? >> >> ^M >> >> You must download the report, not look at it in the browser. > > thanks. > > What I still don't understand is where have those ^M-es got there? > And why only on some systems? > > After downloading the report I saw that on some lines there were ^M in both > the expected and the actual, while on other lines only one of the > versions had the ^M > characters. > > Gabor This is even weirder now. I got this report (on a new release of the same package) http://www.cpantesters.org/cpan/report/d26facd0-6b83-11e1-b4a3-91c8ad4f1d97 after $ wget http://www.cpantesters.org/cpan/report/d26facd0-6b83-11e1-b4a3-91c8ad4f1d97 opening the file with $ vim d26facd0-6b83-11e1-b4a3-91c8ad4f1d97 I don't see any ^M at all in this one. In the other one at least I could see the ^M-s. After removing the other parts of the mail the two strings seem to be the same (using diff). Am I lacking caffeine in my system? Gabor http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/03/msg2702.html Sun, 11 Mar 2012 21:56:30 +0000 Re: Test complains about identical strings not being identical? by Gabor Szabo On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 7:10 PM, Andreas J. Koenig <andreas.koenig.7os6VVqR@franz.ak.mind.de> wrote: >>>>>> On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 13:50:08 +0200, Gabor Szabo <gabor@szabgab.com> said: > >  > Could someone (especially BinGOs), please take a look at this report: >  > http://www.cpantesters.org/cpan/report/8396ba36-65c0-11e1-9d6f-f6dbfa7543f5 > >  > It seems to complain about two identical strings not being the same. > >  > Any idea why would that happen? > > ^M > > You must download the report, not look at it in the browser. thanks. What I still don't understand is where have those ^M-es got there? And why only on some systems? After downloading the report I saw that on some lines there were ^M in both the expected and the actual, while on other lines only one of the versions had the ^M characters. Gabor http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/03/msg2701.html Sun, 11 Mar 2012 14:03:56 +0000 Re: Test complains about identical strings not being identical? by Barbie On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 01:52:43PM -0400, David Golden wrote: > On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Andreas J. Koenig > <andreas.koenig.7os6VVqR@franz.ak.mind.de> wrote: > > You must download the report, not look at it in the browser. > > True, though I wonder if we might find a way to "fix" that and > show/highlight trailing whitespace in the browser. Better would be to go to the source, and allow Test::More to highlight the whitespace differences. This could be additional whitespace or the difference between tabs and spaces. This would be much more useful that waiting for a CPAN Testers report. This crops up often enough, that I think it would be very much appreciated if someone had the tuits to added the appropriate code to Test::More :) Cheers, Barbie. -- Birmingham Perl Mongers <http://birmingham.pm.org> Memoirs Of A Roadie <http://barbie.missbarbell.co.uk> CPAN Testers Blog <http://blog.cpantesters.org> YAPC Conference Surveys <http://yapc-surveys.org> Ark Appreciation Pages <http://ark.eology.org> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/03/msg2700.html Sun, 11 Mar 2012 13:54:07 +0000 Re: Test complains about identical strings not being identical? by David Golden On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Andreas J. Koenig <andreas.koenig.7os6VVqR@franz.ak.mind.de> wrote: > You must download the report, not look at it in the browser. True, though I wonder if we might find a way to "fix" that and show/highlight trailing whitespace in the browser. -- David http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/03/msg2699.html Sun, 11 Mar 2012 10:53:21 +0000 Re: List of prerequisites and environment info by andreas.koenig.7os6VVqR >>>>> On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 13:57:04 +0200, Gabor Szabo <gabor@szabgab.com> said: > Is that such thing already available? There's a parser that can read both styles: CPAN::Testers::ParseReport -- andreas http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/03/msg2698.html Sun, 11 Mar 2012 10:17:39 +0000 Re: Test complains about identical strings not being identical? by andreas.koenig.7os6VVqR >>>>> On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 13:50:08 +0200, Gabor Szabo <gabor@szabgab.com> said: > Could someone (especially BinGOs), please take a look at this report: > http://www.cpantesters.org/cpan/report/8396ba36-65c0-11e1-9d6f-f6dbfa7543f5 > It seems to complain about two identical strings not being the same. > Any idea why would that happen? ^M You must download the report, not look at it in the browser. -- andreas http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/03/msg2697.html Sun, 11 Mar 2012 10:11:07 +0000 Re: CPAN-testers database knackered? by David Cantrell On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 09:26:44AM +0000, Barbie wrote: > Andreas has already alerted me to this, but even recreating the SQLite > DB from scratch has the same problem. The only thing I can think of is > that the DB is so big now that SQLite has problems storing the data. > > This is why I want to look at an alternative method of getting at the > data. I'm going to look at creating an API that returns the records in > CSV or JSON format for a given range of IDs. This will allow you to > maintain your own DB as you wish, rather than have to continually > download several Gig repeatedly. That would be great - it's the way I use the existing SQLite database anyway. As a temporary measure though, would it be possible to generate a database for the first ten million reports, one for the second ten million, one for the third ten million and so on? -- David Cantrell | Official London Perl Mongers Bad Influence Longum iter est per praecepta, breve et efficax per exempla. http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/03/msg2696.html Sun, 11 Mar 2012 07:05:42 +0000 List of prerequisites and environment info by Gabor Szabo hi, looking at two test reports: one using CPANPLUS http://www.cpantesters.org/cpan/report/8396ba36-65c0-11e1-9d6f-f6dbfa7543f5 and one using CPAN::Reporter http://www.cpantesters.org/cpan/report/cf758f1a-58a3-11e1-b43c-5b389aeef8c6 there are a number of differences in the list of prerequisites. 1) different order of module names (ABC vs ASCII) 2) different grouping of modules 3) the title of the columns being different Have/Want vs Need/Hab and the order of the columns different. Would it be possible to create a unified way of reporting this information? I think it would make it easier to compare test reports. Maybe there is (or could be) a stand alone module that would fetch the information and provide the output. That could be also used on the development machine to create a similar report of the environment. And it could also parse its own report fetched from the e-mail and then show the differences. Is that such thing already available? Gabor http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/03/msg2695.html Sun, 11 Mar 2012 04:57:13 +0000 Test complains about identical strings not being identical? by Gabor Szabo Could someone (especially BinGOs), please take a look at this report: http://www.cpantesters.org/cpan/report/8396ba36-65c0-11e1-9d6f-f6dbfa7543f5 It seems to complain about two identical strings not being the same. Any idea why would that happen? The same test passes on many other machines. regards Gabor http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.cpan.testers.discuss/2012/03/msg2694.html Sun, 11 Mar 2012 04:50:18 +0000