Front page | perl.perl6.users |
Postings from February 2008
Re: Perl 6 fundraising and related topics.
From: Fagyal Csongor
February 21, 2008 03:56
Re: Perl 6 fundraising and related topics.
Message ID: 47BD65D8.firstname.lastname@example.org
>>Should it really? I mean: is the time right for that now?
>Let's ask the other way round: Is this the time for only one
>implementation? And who decides that it's the one based on parrot?
>What happens if parrot turns out to be a dead end? (very unlikely, but
Let's give some $$$ to say 3 implementations, see what they come up in a
month. Lets mupltiply their 1/CPU-time with #of tests passed :), and the
winner gets the rest of the money.
>>It's really hard to define what the community wants: noone can speak on
>>behalf of the whole community (and the community has many ideas about
>>things :)) However, and strongly IMHO, what most Perl users want is very
>>simple: to have a not-too-slow Perl6 implementation that runs most of
>>the current Perl6 specification - without too much bugs.
>I also think that many perl people also want a good Perl 6 specification.
On the other hand, I would be very happy if current implementations
could pass 25% of the current specification.
>And different implementations help to explore different part of the specs.
>That also helps rakudo, if the specs are well covered by other
>implementations and are therfore much stable and really implementable.
How about sponsoring some implementations, but give "special attention"
to the most promising one?
>If you argue that most people want an implemenation that covers large
>parts of the specs, the most logical step would be to boost pugs
>development. It's the most advanced implementation by far.
>And I do believe that it can be sped up if you really want that.
I don't know Haskell and the structure of Pugs so I cannot comment on
that - however, I have some doubts. And speed *is* important: I don't
think we can expect people to start using Perl6 if it runs even 2x
slower than Perl5. If Pugs was really up-to-date (I mean: feature
complete), only slow, I would probably use it to learn Perl6, because
Perl6 is just lovely. I would not build something on it, though.
>So where's that pro parrot bias coming from?
IMHO people like the idea of Parrot. It just.. makes sense. It's been
around for quite a while. There are releases every month or so. There is
a mod_parrot. These things.
>>Surely it is very nice to have many implementations (we have seen how
>>much helpful the Pugs project was to help Perl6, for example), but could
>>that happen (or: be sponsored) *after* we have *one* that is fairly
>>complete?? After some time, one imlementations will emerge and become
>>*the* implementations anyway.
>Oh will it? Just like we have one C implementation? Or one Forth
>implementation? Or one Lisp implementation?
Can we add PHP and Perl5 to the list? ;)
>>What I would like to add is that IMHO this time implementators should be
>>sponsored. That is: those who hack and those who answer their questions
>>on how to hack. :)
>And perhaps the ones who write the specs, if they want/need it.
I meant that, too.
>>I also think that different Perl groups all around the world could be
>>responsive. Let's contact the gazillion perl lists and say: "...if you
>>like Perl, please give $10 to the \"Let's have Perl6 now!\" foundation!"
>>I would, and I will personally send anyone to /dev/null who would not! :)
>I don't know if that's a good idea - sadly many of them have the
>perception that Perl 6 is vapour ware.
I guess I have more trust in people than you do. :)
I know that the company I work for would never give a dime to any
foundations, but I would. And I *own* that company :) That's because a
company is always a business, but a person can be an enthusiast.
Anyway: I don't know anything about fundraising, so maybe I shouldn't
say a thing... I just say it might worth a try. People would help to
convince other people. Once again: I would.
>My idea would be to ask big companies that use perl (for example amazon)
>if they would sponsor some of the development.
>Are there other organisations that routinely sponsor open source software?
Can't we just go to Google and say we will use Yahoo if they don't give
us some money? :) And if they don't, we tell everyone! ;)
How about just looking at the sponsor logo-s on the webpages of
different OS conferences? There should be plenty, and could give some
ideas. (But there really should be something you can *show* to them. I
mean at least *one* webpage on Perl6 which is not outdated :) ) YAPC
organizers should have some ideas, too.