perl.fwp

perl.fwp http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/ ... Copyright 1998-2008 perl.org Mon, 06 Oct 2008 22:06:24 +0000 ask@perl.org Re: Interpolated code blocks may not create lexicals by Ryan Yagatich Richard Hartmann wrote: > On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 00:04, Michael G Schwern <schwern@pobox.com> wrote: > >> David Nicol wrote: >> >>> the "fun with perl" mailing list doesn't still exist, does it? >>> >> Yes, yes it does. >> > > Lies! It does not! > > > Richard > > Oh Noes! Regards, Ryan Yagatich -- \|||/ ---------0oo------( o o )------oo0---------- Ryan Yagatich (_) ryagatich@gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/yagatich ----------------------------------------- http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/09/msg4108.html Mon, 29 Sep 2008 05:01:33 +0000 Re: Interpolated code blocks may not create lexicals by Richard Hartmann On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 00:04, Michael G Schwern <schwern@pobox.com> wrote: > David Nicol wrote: >> the "fun with perl" mailing list doesn't still exist, does it? > > Yes, yes it does. Lies! It does not! Richard http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/09/msg4107.html Sun, 28 Sep 2008 16:07:09 +0000 Re: Interpolated code blocks may not create lexicals by Michael G Schwern David Nicol wrote: > the "fun with perl" mailing list doesn't still exist, does it? Yes, yes it does. It's just pining for the fjords. -- "Clutter and overload are not an attribute of information, they are failures of design" -- Edward Tufte http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/09/msg4106.html Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:04:57 +0000 Re: Interpolated code blocks may not create lexicals by David Nicol On 9/25/08, Eirik Berg Hanssen <Eirik-Berg.Hanssen@allverden.no> wrote: > print <<STR; > I like @{ > my $rand = rand(); > [$rand < 0.5 ? 'pie' : 'beer'] > } > STR > > > You already have a block; no need for a do-block within it. > > > (The rest, others already covered.) the "fun with perl" mailing list doesn't still exist, does it? there's also my $BeerOrPie; sub BeerOrPie::TIESCALAR { bless \(my $x), 'BeerOrPie' }; sub BeerOrPie::FETCH { rand() < 0.5 ? 'pie' : 'beer'; }; tie $BeerOrPie, 'BeerOrPie'; print "I like $BeerOrPie\n"; -- "checks and balances" is not financial jargon http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/09/msg4105.html Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:04:42 +0000 Re: YN golf by shmem From the keyboard of Uri Guttman [31.03.08,17:50]: > > someone posted (and it wasn't homework) for an easy way to get all > possible combos of YN (5 chars so 32 answers). he got some basic > multiline answers but i think it makes for a great golf problem. > > here is my first pass which i am sure can be easily bested. i haven't > even squeezed out the white spaces but it does work. > > golf away! > > uri > > perl -le 'print join "\n", map {tr/01/NY/; $_} map unpack( "b5", chr), 0 .. 31' from mtve: perl -le 'y/12/NY/-5||print for 0..2x5' (can't do any better...) 0--gg- -- _($_=" "x(1<<5)."?\n".q·/)Oo. G°\ / /\_¯/(q / ---------------------------- \__(m.====·.(_("always off the crowd"))."· ");sub _{s./.($e="'Itrs `mnsgdq Gdbj O`qkdq")=~y/"-y/#-z/;$e.e && print} http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/04/msg4104.html Fri, 11 Apr 2008 06:10:30 +0000 RE: YN golf by Allen, Greg Magoo! -----Original Message----- From: John W. Krahn [mailto:krahnj@telus.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 7:17 AM To: fwp@perl.org Subject: Re: YN golf Uri Guttman wrote: > someone posted (and it wasn't homework) for an easy way to get all > possible combos of YN (5 chars so 32 answers). he got some basic > multiline answers but i think it makes for a great golf problem. > > here is my first pass which i am sure can be easily bested. i haven't > even squeezed out the white spaces but it does work. > > golf away! > > uri > > perl -le 'print join "\n", map {tr/01/NY/; $_} map unpack( "b5", chr), 0 .. 31' perl -le'y/01/NY/&&print,for+map+unpack(b5,chr),0..31' John -- Perl isn't a toolbox, but a small machine shop where you can special-order certain sorts of tools at low cost and in short order. -- Larry Wall - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - This message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the designated recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. This communication is for information purposes only and should not be regarded as an offer to sell or as a solicitation of an offer to buy any financial product, an official confirmation of any transaction, or as an official statement of Lehman Brothers. Email transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free. Therefore, we do not represent that this information is complete or accurate and it should not be relied upon as such. All information is subject to change without notice. http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/04/msg4103.html Tue, 01 Apr 2008 03:37:14 +0000 Re: YN golf by John W. Krahn Uri Guttman wrote: > someone posted (and it wasn't homework) for an easy way to get all > possible combos of YN (5 chars so 32 answers). he got some basic > multiline answers but i think it makes for a great golf problem. > > here is my first pass which i am sure can be easily bested. i haven't > even squeezed out the white spaces but it does work. > > golf away! > > uri > > perl -le 'print join "\n", map {tr/01/NY/; $_} map unpack( "b5", chr), 0 .. 31' perl -le'y/01/NY/&&print,for+map+unpack(b5,chr),0..31' John -- Perl isn't a toolbox, but a small machine shop where you can special-order certain sorts of tools at low cost and in short order. -- Larry Wall http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/04/msg4102.html Tue, 01 Apr 2008 02:19:31 +0000 Re: YN golf by Philippe Bruhat On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 11:37:05PM -0500, Chris Dolan wrote: > On Mar 31, 2008, at 6:54 PM, Philippe Bruhat (BooK) wrote: >> On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 04:34:58PM -0700, Rick Klement wrote: >>> >>> perl -le 'print for glob"{Y,N}"x5' >>> >> >> Of course you have to run this in a directory that doesn't contain >> any file matching /^[YN]{5}$/. > > Not true. The {} notation doesn't care whether files of that name > actual exist. I tested like so on Mac: I was pretty sure I tried the same manipulation to obtain all permutations of some series of strings, and that it didn't work as expected when one of the permutations actually existed as a file in the current directory. After a quick check, you are right and I was too. :-) What I tried was: $ touch YYYYY $ perl -le 'print for glob"[YN]"x5' YYYYY I computed my permutations with square brackets (which is one character shorter, but more fragile). -- Philippe Bruhat (BooK) To flaunt your strength is to make it your weakness. (Moral from Groo The Wanderer #25 (Epic)) http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/04/msg4101.html Tue, 01 Apr 2008 00:10:47 +0000 Re: YN golf by Chris Dolan On Mar 31, 2008, at 6:54 PM, Philippe Bruhat (BooK) wrote: > On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 04:34:58PM -0700, Rick Klement wrote: >> >> perl -le 'print for glob"{Y,N}"x5' >> > > Of course you have to run this in a directory that doesn't contain > any file matching /^[YN]{5}$/. Not true. The {} notation doesn't care whether files of that name actual exist. I tested like so on Mac: % touch YYYYY % perl -le 'print for glob"{Y,N}"x5' YYYYY YYYYN YYYNY YYYNN YYNYY YYNYN YYNNY YYNNN YNYYY YNYYN YNYNY YNYNN YNNYY YNNYN YNNNY YNNNN NYYYY NYYYN NYYNY NYYNN NYNYY NYNYN NYNNY NYNNN NNYYY NNYYN NNYNY NNYNN NNNYY NNNYN NNNNY NNNNN http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/03/msg4100.html Mon, 31 Mar 2008 21:37:16 +0000 Re: YN golf by Zed Lopez On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 05:50:24PM -0500, Uri Guttman wrote: > perl -le 'print join "\n", map {tr/01/NY/; $_} map unpack( "b5", chr), 0 .. 31' Also, I'm sure, easily bested: perl -e 'for(0..31){$_=sprintf"%05b\n",$_;y/01/YN/;print} marginally shorter not-to-hoyle hybrid: seq 0 31|perl -pe '$_=sprintf"%05b\n",$_;y/01/YN/' -- zed at-sign apricot dot com http://www.MemeMachineGo.com/ Zed Lopez PO Box 12546 Berkeley CA 94712 http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/03/msg4099.html Mon, 31 Mar 2008 17:28:20 +0000 Re: [spam?] YN golf by Josh Goldberg Knocking a few chars off yours for perl -le 'print join$/,map{y/01/NY/;$_}map unpack("b5",chr),0..31' and shrunk a few more by removing the join and using sprintf: perl -le 'print map{y/10 /YN/;$_}map{sprintf"%5b$/",$_}0..31' On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 3:50 PM, Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com> wrote: > > someone posted (and it wasn't homework) for an easy way to get all > possible combos of YN (5 chars so 32 answers). he got some basic > multiline answers but i think it makes for a great golf problem. > > here is my first pass which i am sure can be easily bested. i haven't > even squeezed out the white spaces but it does work. > > golf away! > > uri > > perl -le 'print join "\n", map {tr/01/NY/; $_} map unpack( "b5", chr), 0 > .. 31' > > -- > Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com-- > ----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support > ------ > --------- Free Perl Training --- http://perlhunter.com/college.html--------- > --------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com--------- > http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/03/msg4098.html Mon, 31 Mar 2008 17:28:19 +0000 Re: YN golf by Philippe Bruhat On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 04:34:58PM -0700, Rick Klement wrote: > > perl -le 'print for glob"{Y,N}"x5' > Of course you have to run this in a directory that doesn't contain any file matching /^[YN]{5}$/. -- Philippe Bruhat (BooK) The learned man makes a mistake but once... but the truly stupid keep practicing until they get it right. (Moral from Groo The Wanderer #75 (Epic)) http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/03/msg4097.html Mon, 31 Mar 2008 16:54:50 +0000 Re: YN golf by Rick Klement Uri Guttman wrote: > > someone posted (and it wasn't homework) for an easy way to get all > possible combos of YN (5 chars so 32 answers). he got some basic > multiline answers but i think it makes for a great golf problem. > > here is my first pass which i am sure can be easily bested. i haven't > even squeezed out the white spaces but it does work. > > golf away! > > uri > > perl -le 'print join "\n", map {tr/01/NY/; $_} map unpack( "b5", chr), 0 .. 31' > > -- > Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com -- > ----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------ > --------- Free Perl Training --- http://perlhunter.com/college.html --------- > --------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com --------- perl -le 'print for glob"{Y,N}"x5' -- Rick Klement http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/03/msg4096.html Mon, 31 Mar 2008 16:35:10 +0000 YN golf by Uri Guttman someone posted (and it wasn't homework) for an easy way to get all possible combos of YN (5 chars so 32 answers). he got some basic multiline answers but i think it makes for a great golf problem. here is my first pass which i am sure can be easily bested. i haven't even squeezed out the white spaces but it does work. golf away! uri perl -le 'print join "\n", map {tr/01/NY/; $_} map unpack( "b5", chr), 0 .. 31' -- Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com -- ----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------ --------- Free Perl Training --- http://perlhunter.com/college.html --------- --------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com --------- http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/03/msg4095.html Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:50:56 +0000 Re: Name the secret operator by Michael G Schwern Philippe Bruhat (BooK) wrote: > Hi, > > while doing some research for a talk on Perl secret operators, I tried > to find who first coined the term "secret operator". > > I found a post from Greg Allen on February 2004 on this very list > (http://groups.google.com/group/perl.fwp/msg/e62668a760de1652), > and then a post by Abigail on comp.lang.perl.misc on January 2003 > (http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.perl.misc/msg/22cfcd81a1521ec4). > > Does anyone know of an earlier occurence of the term? Simon Cozens uses the term "double-secret operator" (a reference to Animal House) in a perl.com article on June 6, 2003. But it's not really an FWP-style secret operator and it's after Abigail anyway. http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2003/06/06/regexps.html -- Stabbing you in the face for your own good. http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/03/msg4094.html Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:32:20 +0000 Name the secret operator by Philippe Bruhat Hi, while doing some research for a talk on Perl secret operators, I tried to find who first coined the term "secret operator". I found a post from Greg Allen on February 2004 on this very list (http://groups.google.com/group/perl.fwp/msg/e62668a760de1652), and then a post by Abigail on comp.lang.perl.misc on January 2003 (http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.perl.misc/msg/22cfcd81a1521ec4). Does anyone know of an earlier occurence of the term? Now that I have seen Abigail's post on clpm, I want to know its name. It is the longest secret operator I've seen, and also the only one that must be on three lines (not counting the content). <<m=~m>> (commented out code and pod goes here) m ; I have a few ideas for names, but they don't fit very well, and do not describe the "m\n;" part of the operator. -- Philippe Bruhat (BooK) Putting beauty before brains is the surest way to wind up with neither. (Moral from Groo The Wanderer #24 (Epic)) http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/03/msg4093.html Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:28:34 +0000 Re: regex of the month (decade?) by Craig S. Cottingham On Jan 14, 2008, at 16:42, David Landgren wrote: > What's next, "welcome to the reäl world?" Well, no, because the "a" isn't pronounced as a separate vowel. On the other hand, we may start seeing references to El Camino Reäl in Silicon Valley. -- Craig S. Cottingham craig.cottingham@gmail.com http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/01/msg4092.html Mon, 14 Jan 2008 23:44:04 +0000 Re: regex of the month (decade?) by Peter Makholm David Landgren <david@landgren.net> writes: > At that point, a vote was taken, and the result was that some other > accented character like ý or something made it in at the expense of > . What did get in were the decidedly less useful Æ and æ ligatures. Quite interesting discussion over all, but also quite off topic, so I joined until now. Which is most usefull of the french oe-ligature or the scandinavian letter æ I don't know. But part of the explanation should be that the scandinavian delegates pushed for 'æ' to be accepted as a full letter and not just an ligature. This succedded and therefore 'æ' got included in iso-8859-1, and I'm quite sure that iso-8859-15 makes the same distinction. In english 'æ' is still considered a ligature. But as a non-ascii using european I prefere iso-8859-1(5) to unicode. Much easier to work with, but I havn't really had the need to mix different alphabets. > but never saw it in use. Then last week I read two articles on two > different web sites that used this convention. I found it quite > jarring. What's next, "welcome to the reäl world?" But only if the pronouncation 're-al' would become widespread. //Makholm http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/01/msg4091.html Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:29:38 +0000 Re: Umlaut by David Landgren sebb wrote: > On 14/01/2008, John Douglas Porter <johndporter@yahoo.com> wrote: >> From the keyboard of Yanick Champoux [12.01.08,18:50]: >>> *dieresis* or *diæresis *A diacritical mark (* ¨ *) optionally >> used in >>> English, oftentimes replaced by a hyphen. In English, the dieresis >> is used on >>> a second identical vowel to indicate a change in pronunciation of >> that vowel >>> or indicate it is pronounced in a separate syllable. It is sometimes >> referred >>> to as an « umlaut » when used with a single character or in a « >> diphthong. » >>> Examples: reëlecting, reëncoding, coöperation, coördination. > > Also naïf and naïve - non-identical vowels. But isn't that because these two words are straight lifts from French, where they have this exact spelling? It's not an English thing in this case. David http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/01/msg4090.html Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:49:56 +0000 Re: regex of the month (decade?) by David Landgren Chris Dolan wrote: > On Jan 11, 2008, at 8:01 AM, David Landgren wrote: > >> The benchmark may be flawed, since my appreciation of Unicode is >> little more than "things went downhill after 7-bit ASCII". > > Haven't I read that you live in Paris? I figured that anyone who lives > in a country whose dominant language was not fully expressible in ASCII > would love Unicode. I do, but then again French is fully expressible in Latin-1... except for the oe ligature (&oelig;). I worked with a French programmer a few years back who spent much of his career working in government computing circles. Apparently when the national European computer organisations were thrashing out what characters should go where in the 128..255 high ASCII slots, his colleague at the time, who was representing France in one of the discussions, was out of the meeting having a coffee. At that point, a vote was taken, and the result was that some other accented character like ý or something made it in at the expense of &oelig;. What did get in were the decidedly less useful Æ and æ ligatures. > On a major tangent, have others noticed the resurgence of the umlaut in > printed English? I keep seeing things like coöperation or coördinates > -- particularly in Technology Review, but in other publications on > occasion too. Is that because it's *supposed* to be spelled that way, > but ASCII and the typewriter have suppressed that spelling for my lifetime? Funny you should mention that. I read about this first maybe twenty, twenty-five years ago proposed as "the way things should really be" but never saw it in use. Then last week I read two articles on two different web sites that used this convention. I found it quite jarring. What's next, "welcome to the reäl world?" David http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/01/msg4089.html Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:44:33 +0000 Re: Umlaut by Paul Johnson On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 05:16:42PM +0100, Georg Moritz wrote: > >From the keyboard of sebb [14.01.08,12:21]: > > The rule seems to be: second vowel of a pair=dieresis, otherwise umlaut. > > > > Any counter-examples? > > yup, two examples: > > German: > "geärgert" (been angry) > - here the second vowel is an umlaut > > Quenya - the elven-tongue: > "ámen anta síra ilaurëa massamma" (give us today the daily our-bread) > - here the diaeresis is noted on the first vowel at ëa Don't forget the burning of the Böögg in Zürich at Sächsilüüte. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sechsel%C3%A4uten -- Paul Johnson - paul@pjcj.net http://www.pjcj.net http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/01/msg4088.html Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:42:08 +0000 Re: Umlaut by Keith Ivey sebb wrote: > The rule seems to be: second vowel of a pair=dieresis, otherwise umlaut. I'd call the symbol in "Brontë" a dieresis, not an umlaut. Maybe: when the symbol indicates the vowel is to be pronounced further forward in the mouth, it's an umlaut; when it indicates the vowel is to be pronounced on its own in a normal way, it's a dieresis. -- Keith C. Ivey <keith@iveys.org> Washington, DC http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/01/msg4087.html Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:16:53 +0000 Re: Umlaut by Georg Moritz From the keyboard of sebb [14.01.08,12:21]: > On 14/01/2008, John Douglas Porter <johndporter@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > From the keyboard of Yanick Champoux [12.01.08,18:50]: > > > *dieresis* or *diæresis *A diacritical mark (* ¨ *) optionally > > used in > > > English, oftentimes replaced by a hyphen. In English, the dieresis > > is used on > > > a second identical vowel to indicate a change in pronunciation of > > that vowel > > > or indicate it is pronounced in a separate syllable. It is sometimes > > referred > > > to as an « umlaut » when used with a single character or in a « > > diphthong. » > > > Examples: reëlecting, reëncoding, coöperation, coördination. > > > > Also naïf and naïve - non-identical vowels. > > > I want to clarify (only because I myself was confused at first) > > that an umlaut can be used IN a diphthong, but does not have > > any function in MAKING a diphthong. For example, the > > German diphthong "au" becomes "äu" due to umlaut, (or "vowel > > shifting"). Correct (unless I'm mistaken too ;-) > In summary, umlaut and dieresis/diaeresis (also trema) are both > diacritical marks. > > Same symbol, but different meaning, where the meaning of the symbol > depends on the context. > > The rule seems to be: second vowel of a pair=dieresis, otherwise umlaut. > > Any counter-examples? yup, two examples: German: "geärgert" (been angry) - here the second vowel is an umlaut Quenya - the elven-tongue: "ámen anta síra ilaurëa massamma" (give us today the daily our-bread) - here the diaeresis is noted on the first vowel at ëa ;-) 0--gg- > > Unless I am mistaken. > > Same here... > > > -- > > John Douglas Porter > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > -- _($_=" "x(1<<5)."?\n".q·/)Oo. G°\ / /\_¯/(q / ---------------------------- \__(m.====·.(_("always off the crowd"))."· ");sub _{s,/,($e="'Itrs `mnsgdq Gdbj O`qkdq")=~y/"-y/#-z/;$e,e && print} http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/01/msg4086.html Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:16:53 +0000 Re: Umlaut by sebb On 14/01/2008, John Douglas Porter <johndporter@yahoo.com> wrote: > > From the keyboard of Yanick Champoux [12.01.08,18:50]: > > *dieresis* or *diæresis *A diacritical mark (* ¨ *) optionally > used in > > English, oftentimes replaced by a hyphen. In English, the dieresis > is used on > > a second identical vowel to indicate a change in pronunciation of > that vowel > > or indicate it is pronounced in a separate syllable. It is sometimes > referred > > to as an « umlaut » when used with a single character or in a « > diphthong. » > > Examples: reëlecting, reëncoding, coöperation, coördination. > Also naïf and naïve - non-identical vowels. > I want to clarify (only because I myself was confused at first) > that an umlaut can be used IN a diphthong, but does not have > any function in MAKING a diphthong. For example, the > German diphthong "au" becomes "äu" due to umlaut, (or "vowel > shifting"). > In summary, umlaut and dieresis/diaeresis (also trema) are both diacritical marks. Same symbol, but different meaning, where the meaning of the symbol depends on the context. The rule seems to be: second vowel of a pair=dieresis, otherwise umlaut. Any counter-examples? > Unless I am mistaken. Same here... > -- > John Douglas Porter > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/01/msg4085.html Mon, 14 Jan 2008 04:22:06 +0000 Re: Umlaut by John Douglas Porter From the keyboard of Yanick Champoux [12.01.08,18:50]: > *dieresis* or *diæresis *A diacritical mark (* ¨ *) optionally used in > English, oftentimes replaced by a hyphen. In English, the dieresis is used on > a second identical vowel to indicate a change in pronunciation of that vowel > or indicate it is pronounced in a separate syllable. It is sometimes referred > to as an « umlaut » when used with a single character or in a « diphthong. » > Examples: reëlecting, reëncoding, coöperation, coördination. I want to clarify (only because I myself was confused at first) that an umlaut can be used IN a diphthong, but does not have any function in MAKING a diphthong. For example, the German diphthong "au" becomes "äu" due to umlaut, (or "vowel shifting"). Unless I am mistaken. -- John Douglas Porter ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/01/msg4084.html Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:12:16 +0000 Re: regex of the month (decade?) by Yanick Champoux Michael G Schwern wrote: > > Yanick Champoux wrote: > > > *dieresis* or *diæresis [..] > > Really they just want to be more metal. Soon it will be ¡KömpUsërV.DøøM! > And to thing that, all those years, I laughed at Spinal Tap's claim to be avant-garde and visionary geniuses. They were right. All that time, they were right... Joÿ, `/anick http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/01/msg4083.html Sun, 13 Jan 2008 16:44:54 +0000 Re: Umlaut by Yanick Champoux Georg Moritz wrote: > From the keyboard of Yanick Champoux [12.01.08,18:50]: > >> *dieresis* or *diæresis *A diacritical mark (* ¨ *) optionally used in >> English, oftentimes replaced by a hyphen. In English, the dieresis is used on >> a second identical vowel to indicate a change in pronunciation of that vowel >> or indicate it is pronounced in a separate syllable. It is sometimes referred >> to as an « umlaut » when used with a single character or in a « diphthong. » >> Examples: reëlecting, reëncoding, coöperation, coördination. >> > > Actually the term "umlaut" in german denotes a "shifted" vowel. If you do > a transition from "u" -> "e" biased towards "i" and stopping in the middle, > you have the "ü", which can be written as diphtong also: "ue". The "e" in > "ue" was often placed above the "u" in old german writing (where the "e" > was written like "n", but with a sharp bend instead of a curve before the > last falling stroke). The four strokes necessary for that "e" were reduced > to two, and those to dots, hence the two points above the "ü". > > So, the umlaut is a shortened form of a "diphtongy" denoting a shifted vowel, > and *not* a diaeresis ("ue" is not a diphtong, but an umlaut ;-) > Yup, I became aware of that yesterday when I shared my new golden nugget of trivia with my wife. Being both German *and* a linguist, she promptly corrected my inaccuracies. But she left out the part about the 'e' mutating into the two little dots that we know and love nowadays, which I think is the coolest part of the whole story, so thanks for that! :-) Joy, `/anick http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/01/msg4082.html Sun, 13 Jan 2008 16:22:57 +0000 Re: regex of the month (decade?) by Michael G Schwern Yanick Champoux wrote: > Chris Dolan wrote: >> On a major tangent, have others noticed the resurgence of the umlaut >> in printed English? I keep seeing things like coöperation or >> coördinates -- particularly in Technology Review, but in other >> publications on occasion too. Is that because it's *supposed* to be >> spelled that way, but ASCII and the typewriter have suppressed that >> spelling for my lifetime? >> > > A quick use of Google-fu unearthed a blog entry > http://www.dwelle.org/archives/2007/01/05/whats-with-all-the-umlauts/, > which in turn pointed to the page > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/profirst/d.htm that says: > > *dieresis* or *diæresis *A diacritical mark (* ¨ *) optionally used in > English, oftentimes replaced by a hyphen. In English, the dieresis is > used on a second identical vowel to indicate a change in pronunciation > of that vowel or indicate it is pronounced in a separate syllable. It is > sometimes referred to as an « umlaut » when used with a single character > or in a « diphthong. » Examples: reëlecting, reëncoding, coöperation, > coördination. Because, ya know, I always get confused about how to pronounce "reelecting". Thank god they cleared that right up! And with an easy to understand symbol that everyone knows about! :P Really they just want to be more metal. Soon it will be ¡KömpUsërV.DøøM! -- There will be snacks. http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/01/msg4081.html Sun, 13 Jan 2008 09:16:56 +0000 Re: regex of the month (decade?) by Eugene van der Pijll Yanick Champoux schreef: > *dieresis* or *diæresis > > Well I, for one, never knew that such a thing existed. Neato! Too > bad the name of the mark, though, which is definitively unfortunate. According to the infallible Wikipedia, this diacritic is also called a trema. Only if used as a seperation mark, not as an umlaut. HTH Eugene http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/01/msg4080.html Sun, 13 Jan 2008 05:38:33 +0000 Re: regex of the month (decade?) by Aristotle Pagaltzis * Chris Dolan <chris@chrisdolan.net> [2008-01-12 23:55]: > I figured that anyone who lives in a country whose dominant > language was not fully expressible in ASCII would love Unicode. For bonus points, try writing, say, German (fully expressible with an ISO-8859 charset) and Greek (fully expressible[^1] with an ISO-8859 charset) in the same document. [1]: Well, Modern Greek anyway. Regards, -- Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/01/msg4079.html Sat, 12 Jan 2008 23:21:45 +0000 Re: regex of the month (decade?) by Keith Ivey Chris Dolan wrote: > Haven't I read that you live in Paris? I figured that anyone who lives > in a country whose dominant language was not fully expressible in ASCII > would love Unicode. "Not fully expressible" seems mild to apply to writing French in ASCII (which after all has no diacritics). The phrase seems more appropriate for writing French in ISO-8859-1 (because of the lack of "oe" ligature). -- Keith C. Ivey <keith@iveys.org> Washington, DC http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/01/msg4078.html Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:05:24 +0000 Re: regex of the month (decade?) by Dave Mitchell On Sun, Jan 13, 2008 at 12:23:35AM +0100, Georg Moritz wrote: > Well, that's sort of quotemeta for the double o - differentiating e.g. > double-o usage in cool vs. cooperation. I haven't seen that usage in > english yet, but it's used in spanish to mark a vowel as literal, e.g. in > "Parque Güell". The only English word I think its commonly seen with is naïve, to indicate that the ai isn't a digraph. -- "But Sidley Park is already a picture, and a most amiable picture too. The slopes are green and gentle. The trees are companionably grouped at intervals that show them to advantage. The rill is a serpentine ribbon unwound from the lake peaceably contained by meadows on which the right amount of sheep are tastefully arranged." -- Lady Croom, "Arcadia" http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/01/msg4077.html Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:55:45 +0000 Umlaut (was: Re: regex of the month (decade?)) by Georg Moritz From the keyboard of Yanick Champoux [12.01.08,18:50]: > Chris Dolan wrote: > > On a major tangent, have others noticed the resurgence of the umlaut in > > printed English? I keep seeing things like coöperation or coördinates -- > > particularly in Technology Review, but in other publications on occasion > > too. Is that because it's *supposed* to be spelled that way, but ASCII and > > the typewriter have suppressed that spelling for my lifetime? > > > > A quick use of Google-fu unearthed a blog entry > http://www.dwelle.org/archives/2007/01/05/whats-with-all-the-umlauts/, which > in turn pointed to the page > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/profirst/d.htm that says: > > *dieresis* or *diæresis *A diacritical mark (* ¨ *) optionally used in > English, oftentimes replaced by a hyphen. In English, the dieresis is used on > a second identical vowel to indicate a change in pronunciation of that vowel > or indicate it is pronounced in a separate syllable. It is sometimes referred > to as an « umlaut » when used with a single character or in a « diphthong. » > Examples: reëlecting, reëncoding, coöperation, coördination. Actually the term "umlaut" in german denotes a "shifted" vowel. If you do a transition from "u" -> "e" biased towards "i" and stopping in the middle, you have the "ü", which can be written as diphtong also: "ue". The "e" in "ue" was often placed above the "u" in old german writing (where the "e" was written like "n", but with a sharp bend instead of a curve before the last falling stroke). The four strokes necessary for that "e" were reduced to two, and those to dots, hence the two points above the "ü". So, the umlaut is a shortened form of a "diphtongy" denoting a shifted vowel, and *not* a diaeresis ("ue" is not a diphtong, but an umlaut ;-) Ö--gg- -- _($_=" "x(1<<5)."?\n".q·/)Oo. G°\ / /\_¯/(q / ---------------------------- \__(m.====·.(_("always off the crowd"))."· ");sub _{s,/,($e="'Itrs `mnsgdq Gdbj O`qkdq")=~y/"-y/#-z/;$e,e && print} http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/01/msg4076.html Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:50:27 +0000 Re: regex of the month (decade?) by Georg Moritz From the keyboard of Chris Dolan [12.01.08,16:51]: > On Jan 11, 2008, at 8:01 AM, David Landgren wrote: > > > The benchmark may be flawed, since my appreciation of Unicode is little more > > than "things went downhill after 7-bit ASCII". > > Haven't I read that you live in Paris? I figured that anyone who lives in a > country whose dominant language was not fully expressible in ASCII would love > Unicode. > > On a major tangent, have others noticed the resurgence of the umlaut in > printed English? I keep seeing things like coöperation or coördinates -- > particularly in Technology Review, but in other publications on occasion too. > Is that because it's *supposed* to be spelled that way, but ASCII and the > typewriter have suppressed that spelling for my lifetime? Well, that's sort of quotemeta for the double o - differentiating e.g. double-o usage in cool vs. cooperation. I haven't seen that usage in english yet, but it's used in spanish to mark a vowel as literal, e.g. in "Parque Güell". 0--gg- -- _($_=" "x(1<<5)."?\n".q·/)Oo. G°\ / /\_¯/(q / ---------------------------- \__(m.====·.(_("always off the crowd"))."· ");sub _{s,/,($e="'Itrs `mnsgdq Gdbj O`qkdq")=~y/"-y/#-z/;$e,e && print} http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/01/msg4075.html Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:24:21 +0000 Re: regex of the month (decade?) by Yanick Champoux Chris Dolan wrote: > On a major tangent, have others noticed the resurgence of the umlaut > in printed English? I keep seeing things like coöperation or > coördinates -- particularly in Technology Review, but in other > publications on occasion too. Is that because it's *supposed* to be > spelled that way, but ASCII and the typewriter have suppressed that > spelling for my lifetime? > A quick use of Google-fu unearthed a blog entry http://www.dwelle.org/archives/2007/01/05/whats-with-all-the-umlauts/, which in turn pointed to the page http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/profirst/d.htm that says: *dieresis* or *diæresis *A diacritical mark (* ¨ *) optionally used in English, oftentimes replaced by a hyphen. In English, the dieresis is used on a second identical vowel to indicate a change in pronunciation of that vowel or indicate it is pronounced in a separate syllable. It is sometimes referred to as an « umlaut » when used with a single character or in a « diphthong. » Examples: reëlecting, reëncoding, coöperation, coördination. Well I, for one, never knew that such a thing existed. Neato! Too bad the name of the mark, though, which is definitively unfortunate. Joÿ, `/anick http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/01/msg4074.html Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:19:52 +0000 Re: regex of the month (decade?) by Chris Dolan On Jan 11, 2008, at 8:01 AM, David Landgren wrote: > The benchmark may be flawed, since my appreciation of Unicode is > little more than "things went downhill after 7-bit ASCII". Haven't I read that you live in Paris? I figured that anyone who lives in a country whose dominant language was not fully expressible in ASCII would love Unicode. On a major tangent, have others noticed the resurgence of the umlaut in printed English? I keep seeing things like coöperation or coördinates -- particularly in Technology Review, but in other publications on occasion too. Is that because it's *supposed* to be spelled that way, but ASCII and the typewriter have suppressed that spelling for my lifetime? Chris http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/01/msg4073.html Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:51:16 +0000 Re: regex of the month (decade?) by David Landgren Michael G Schwern wrote: > And the reverse is now true in this highly inaccurate test... > > $ time perl5.8.8 -wle '$foo = "x" x 10000; $foo .= "T"; $foo =~ /[Tt]/ for > 1..100000' > > real 0m5.732s > user 0m5.565s > sys 0m0.027s > > $ time perl5.8.8 -wle '$foo = "x" x 10000; $foo .= "T"; $foo =~ /t/i for > 1..100000' > > real 0m2.589s > user 0m2.544s > sys 0m0.015s And if I recall my perl510delta correctly, /i should be even faster on 5.10.0. No, hang on, it's when UTF-8 strings are involved. % time perl5.8.8 -Mutf8 -Mcharnames=:full -wle '$foo = "e\N{GREEK SMALL LETTER BETA}" x 5000; $foo .= "T"; $foo =~ /t/i for 1..1000' real 0m22.855s user 0m22.827s sys 0m0.016s % ./perl -v This is perl, v5.10.0 DEVEL32604 built for i386-freebsd-thread-multi % time ./perl -Ilib -Mutf8 -Mcharnames=:full -wle '$foo = "e\N{GREEK SMALL LETTER BETA}" x 5000; $foo .= "T"; $foo =~ /t/i for 1..1000' real 0m22.957s user 0m22.948s sys 0m0.001s Well, look on the bright side. It's no worse. The benchmark may be flawed, since my appreciation of Unicode is little more than "things went downhill after 7-bit ASCII". David http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/01/msg4072.html Fri, 11 Jan 2008 06:01:55 +0000 Re: regex of the month (decade?) by Michael G Schwern Sébastien Aperghis-Tramoni wrote: > Q: Why do you use /[Tt]/ instead of /t/i? It's so ugly! > > A: Simple - the case-insensitive match switch is very > inefficient. According to "Mastering Regular Expressions" > from O'Reilly Press, /[Tt]/ is faster and more space > efficient than /t/i - by as much as double against long > strings. //i essentially does a lc() on the string and > keeps a temporary copy in memory. > > When this changes, and it is in the 5.6 development series, > I will gladly use //i. Believe me, I realize [Tt] is hideously > ugly. Looks like it was painfully true for 5.5... $ time perl5.5.5 -wle '$foo = "x" x 10000; $foo .= "T"; $foo =~ /[Tt]/ for 1..100000' real 0m4.882s user 0m4.761s sys 0m0.026s $ time perl5.5.5 -wle '$foo = "x" x 10000; $foo .= "T"; $foo =~ /t/i for 1..100000' real 0m40.656s user 0m39.587s sys 0m0.149s And the reverse is now true in this highly inaccurate test... $ time perl5.8.8 -wle '$foo = "x" x 10000; $foo .= "T"; $foo =~ /[Tt]/ for 1..100000' real 0m5.732s user 0m5.565s sys 0m0.027s $ time perl5.8.8 -wle '$foo = "x" x 10000; $foo .= "T"; $foo =~ /t/i for 1..100000' real 0m2.589s user 0m2.544s sys 0m0.015s -- <Schwern> What we learned was if you get confused, grab someone and swing them around a few times -- Life's lessons from square dancing http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/01/msg4071.html Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:51:06 +0000 Re: regex of the month (decade?) by Sébastien Aperghis-Tramoni Dan Collins wrote: > On Jan 7, 2008 5:06 PM, Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com> wrote: > >> ^([Pp]([Oo][Ss][Tt])?[.\s]*[Oo]([Ff][Ff][Ii][Cc][Ee])?[.\s]*[Bb][Oo] >> [Xx])|[Pp][Oo]([Bb]|[Xx]|[Dd][Rr][Aa][Ww][Ee][Rr]|[Ss][Tt][Oo][Ff] >> [Ff] >> [Ii][Cc][Ee]|[ ][Bb][Xx]|[Bb][Oo][Xx])|[Pp][/][Oo]|[Bb]([Xx]|[Oo] >> [Xx]| >> [Uu][Zz][Oo][Nn])|[Aa]([Pp][Aa][Rr][Tt][Aa][Dd][Oo]|[Pp][Tt][Dd][Oo]) >> >> the challenge: itemize the stupidities. the case issue is only 1! i >> don't want to even post the 'spec' unless asked for it. i saw this on >> usenet today. > > I don't even want to know what that's supposed to do. > First, and most obviously, that should use /i. You can also find code like this in HTML::Template. Sam Tregar explained the reason in the FAQ: Q: Why do you use /[Tt]/ instead of /t/i? It's so ugly! A: Simple - the case-insensitive match switch is very inefficient. According to "Mastering Regular Expressions" from O'Reilly Press, /[Tt]/ is faster and more space efficient than /t/i - by as much as double against long strings. //i essentially does a lc() on the string and keeps a temporary copy in memory. When this changes, and it is in the 5.6 development series, I will gladly use //i. Believe me, I realize [Tt] is hideously ugly. » http://search.cpan.org/dist/HTML-Template/ Template.pm#FREQUENTLY_ASKED_QUESTIONS -- Sébastien Aperghis-Tramoni Close the world, txEn eht nepO. http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/01/msg4070.html Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:32:26 +0000 Re: regex of the month (decade?) by David Landgren Stoll, Steven R. wrote: > After solving the case sensitivity issue, separating the alternations, and > solving the un-escaped /, here is what we are left with. > > (p(ost)?[.\s]*o(ffice)?[.\s]*box) > po(b|x|drawer|stoffice|[ ]bx|box) > p[\/]o > b(x|ox|uzon) > a(partado|ptdo) If we unroll that to post[.\s]*o(ffice)?[.\s]*box p[.\s]*o(ffice)?[.\s]*box pob pox podrawer postoffice po[ ]bx pobox p[\/]o bx box buzon apartado aptdo reassembling it, we obtain (?:p(?:o(?:st(?:[.\s]*o(ffice)?[.\s]*box|office)|(?: b)?x|b(?:ox)?|drawer)|[.\s]*o(ffice)?[.\s]*box|\/o)|ap(?:arta|t)do|b(?:uzon|o?x)) I'm happy that they thought to check for 'pox' as a shorthand to postoffice box. I'll remember to use that next time I need to address such a letter. David http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.fwp/2008/01/msg4069.html Tue, 08 Jan 2008 14:11:12 +0000